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Thom Browne + Brooks Brothers = Black Fleece (pics are up)
- Thread starter scruff
- Start date
- Watchers 7
imageWIS
Stylish Dinosaur
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I am not talking art for arts sake. I know that you don't live in California or New York, so this might not ring home for you, but much of the selling point for some of the more out there designs is that "I understand this and you don't". I am not saying that it is a worthwhile way to think, but the need to think that way leads people to want this kind of stuff.Originally Posted by iammatt
People are sheep. Point taken.
Jon.
imageWIS
Stylish Dinosaur
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TB=Thom Browne's own lineOriginally Posted by SoCal2NYC
BF= Black Fleece, BB's new line that is designed by Thom Browne
I know. And I wasn't talking about me. I was saying that the details of different lines have been blurred by this thread.
Jon.
dave
Senior Member
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i just want a dang catalog of the stuff already. I mean come on! Brooks sends out 42 catalogs a month and i havent seent eh black fleece stuff yet save for a few half decent pictures on the web?
jeez, they sure like to kep us rednecks in the dark
jeez, they sure like to kep us rednecks in the dark
antirabbit
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I heard that there is lead paint in these things.
There are carcinagenic agents used in the processing of the wool that will cause your balls to swell to the size of melons and your legs will get longer, hence the highwater look.
WTF.
There is nothing to defend here, TB is for some and not all. Trying to push this aesthetic on a crowd of traditionalists (normal BB customers) is like trying to charge 40 Euro for a mcDonalds hamburger that is "styled" after the original burgers from the 50's, but made with Kobe beef and sold in the most exclusive and established parisian eateries.
There are carcinagenic agents used in the processing of the wool that will cause your balls to swell to the size of melons and your legs will get longer, hence the highwater look.
WTF.
There is nothing to defend here, TB is for some and not all. Trying to push this aesthetic on a crowd of traditionalists (normal BB customers) is like trying to charge 40 Euro for a mcDonalds hamburger that is "styled" after the original burgers from the 50's, but made with Kobe beef and sold in the most exclusive and established parisian eateries.
Joel_Cairo
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- 11
TB=Thom Browne's own lineOriginally Posted by SoCal2NYC
BF= Black Fleece, BB's new line that is designed by Thom Browne
I hereby motion to call the "Black Fleece" collab between Thome Brown and Brooks Brothers TBBF, which has the benefit of clearly referencing all parties in the fewest number of keystrokes.
imageWIS
Stylish Dinosaur
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- 106
I heard that there is lead paint in these things.Originally Posted by antirabbit
There are carcinagenic agents used in the processing of the wool that will cause your balls to swell to the size of melons and your legs will get longer, hence the highwater look.
WTF.
There is nothing to defend here, TB is for some and not all. Trying to push this aesthetic on a crowd of traditionalists (normal BB customers) is like trying to charge 40 Euro for a mcDonalds hamburger that is "styled" after the original burgers from the 50's, but made with Kobe beef and sold in the most exclusive and established parisian eateries.
Well, it's nice to see someone gets it (and by it I mean my point, and by my point I mean the very thing I've been trying to get through for the last 2 days).
Jon.
nerdykarim
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i just want a dang catalog of the stuff already. I mean come on! Brooks sends out 42 catalogs a month and i havent seent eh black fleece stuff yet save for a few half decent pictures on the web? jeez, they sure like to kep us rednecks in the darkOriginally Posted by dave
You can buy one on eBay. edit: i might as well...
Fuuma
Franchouillard Modasse
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- Dec 20, 2004
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A few comments:
-"How many people will be seeking TB-designed items at BB? There is a reason why the items are only available in limited markets, because of their inability to sell." : BF by TB is higher priced and obviously aimed at a different (and more affluent) customer than the regular BB one, I don't see how targeting that customer by selling the goods where he might live/shop would be linked to an inability to sell, and, from what I infer about Imagewis affirmation; an inferior good. Would this mean that Men's warehouse suits are better than Kiton, due to their wide distribution channels? I'm sure you could make a case that a design's quality is linked to the appeal it hold on its (intended) market but I would even disagree with you on that, as the intrinsic value of concepts, ideas and products is in no way linked to their extrinsic appeal. Which is why an "appeal to popularity", while useful for secondary discussions, is a sophistical argument.
-"BB has survived by its heritage so it has no choice to continue to do so that way": I would assume that merely surviving is not enough and that the company is actually making a bold move to expand its target market and revamp its stuffy image., prestige lines like this one are usually the way you go about it in the fashion world so this sounds consistent with their current actions.
-"But you don't dress like runway look x, how can you say you like this brand!!!": For the record I don't even wear TB/BF-TB, I'm not sure Iammatt does either. One can appreciate the ideas and styles put forward by a designer without supporting each individual look, or desiring to reproduce runways ideas literally in their daily dressing style or even feeling the brand is suitable for them. I don't wear Boudicca either and that doesn't mean that I don't connect with their vision.
-"but it's not the 50-60s ;(!!": Design is a language and just like any language mediates the relationship between Reality and the expression of that reality on a terminological level, while on the rhetorical level, the "communicator/emitter" does the same thing (basically, reality is first transformed by being converted into "words" and then by the bias/values/etc of the person saying the damn words). So you're not going to get straight up 50-60s until we invent a time machine and you get to experience it yourself (it could be argued that since you will have a different frame of reference, having lived after the 60s and all you wouldn't experiment "the 60s" anyways). I would also add that TB actually makes no attempt to hide the fact that his vision is peculiar, personal and modernized. Representation/reproduction seems far from his goal. If you want classic reproduction spirit get some Japanese denim repros, but even then it is more about the recreation of artifacts symbolic of a mythical past by members of a nation that did not even live it than anything else.
-"art is only appreciated by a minority and they do it to feel good about themselves/cause they're elitists/cheep": This is only tangentially linked to the main discussion, the reality of things is that conspicuous consumption (consumption aimed at affirming/aspiring to a certain status) has greatly fragmented since Veblen. Now there isn't just one hierarchy, but many depending on what tribe you want to run with. Make no mistake, a forum such as this one, where people basically connect and pat each other in the back on their most excellent purchases/taste is as motivated by an interest in the intrinsic attributes of garments as their extrinsic ones, like what they say about you/your taste/your personality/even your social class etc.. Conspicuous consumption is only nefarious if it is a nuisance or is used to enforce domination, I do feel that the modern diversity of points of views helps such habits become a way of expression and connection with other people, in addition to helping you to minimally size up someone at least a little bit quicker. The danger is when the extrinsic value of an item takes precedence over an interest in its innate ones, letting conspicuous consumption take center stage, instead of being merely a tangential characteristic. I'm reminded on the thread on LV where all the person sees is extrinsic value. You can see that happening to many people involved in the art world, but that is true in many areas of interest, as most modern consumption and pretty much 100% of the advertising linked to it now falls into the category of conspicuous consumption
-"How many people will be seeking TB-designed items at BB? There is a reason why the items are only available in limited markets, because of their inability to sell." : BF by TB is higher priced and obviously aimed at a different (and more affluent) customer than the regular BB one, I don't see how targeting that customer by selling the goods where he might live/shop would be linked to an inability to sell, and, from what I infer about Imagewis affirmation; an inferior good. Would this mean that Men's warehouse suits are better than Kiton, due to their wide distribution channels? I'm sure you could make a case that a design's quality is linked to the appeal it hold on its (intended) market but I would even disagree with you on that, as the intrinsic value of concepts, ideas and products is in no way linked to their extrinsic appeal. Which is why an "appeal to popularity", while useful for secondary discussions, is a sophistical argument.
-"BB has survived by its heritage so it has no choice to continue to do so that way": I would assume that merely surviving is not enough and that the company is actually making a bold move to expand its target market and revamp its stuffy image., prestige lines like this one are usually the way you go about it in the fashion world so this sounds consistent with their current actions.
-"But you don't dress like runway look x, how can you say you like this brand!!!": For the record I don't even wear TB/BF-TB, I'm not sure Iammatt does either. One can appreciate the ideas and styles put forward by a designer without supporting each individual look, or desiring to reproduce runways ideas literally in their daily dressing style or even feeling the brand is suitable for them. I don't wear Boudicca either and that doesn't mean that I don't connect with their vision.
-"but it's not the 50-60s ;(!!": Design is a language and just like any language mediates the relationship between Reality and the expression of that reality on a terminological level, while on the rhetorical level, the "communicator/emitter" does the same thing (basically, reality is first transformed by being converted into "words" and then by the bias/values/etc of the person saying the damn words). So you're not going to get straight up 50-60s until we invent a time machine and you get to experience it yourself (it could be argued that since you will have a different frame of reference, having lived after the 60s and all you wouldn't experiment "the 60s" anyways). I would also add that TB actually makes no attempt to hide the fact that his vision is peculiar, personal and modernized. Representation/reproduction seems far from his goal. If you want classic reproduction spirit get some Japanese denim repros, but even then it is more about the recreation of artifacts symbolic of a mythical past by members of a nation that did not even live it than anything else.
-"art is only appreciated by a minority and they do it to feel good about themselves/cause they're elitists/cheep": This is only tangentially linked to the main discussion, the reality of things is that conspicuous consumption (consumption aimed at affirming/aspiring to a certain status) has greatly fragmented since Veblen. Now there isn't just one hierarchy, but many depending on what tribe you want to run with. Make no mistake, a forum such as this one, where people basically connect and pat each other in the back on their most excellent purchases/taste is as motivated by an interest in the intrinsic attributes of garments as their extrinsic ones, like what they say about you/your taste/your personality/even your social class etc.. Conspicuous consumption is only nefarious if it is a nuisance or is used to enforce domination, I do feel that the modern diversity of points of views helps such habits become a way of expression and connection with other people, in addition to helping you to minimally size up someone at least a little bit quicker. The danger is when the extrinsic value of an item takes precedence over an interest in its innate ones, letting conspicuous consumption take center stage, instead of being merely a tangential characteristic. I'm reminded on the thread on LV where all the person sees is extrinsic value. You can see that happening to many people involved in the art world, but that is true in many areas of interest, as most modern consumption and pretty much 100% of the advertising linked to it now falls into the category of conspicuous consumption
antirabbit
Distinguished Member
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Seriously,
This is just a brand.
We are all reacting to the start of a conceptual brand, which is going to either succeed or fail.
It is not art, it is not transcendental philosophy, nor is it artisinal craft.
It is just a brand.
The confusion is in whose brand is it? Is it BB, is it TB, is BF a new brand?
It is also not as though TB is now the chief designer for BB.
BF is just a brand.
It is expensive, and illicits desire from some and distain from others.
It may be ghastly in its perversion of fashion, it may be devine.
Alas, its still just a brand.
This is just a brand.
We are all reacting to the start of a conceptual brand, which is going to either succeed or fail.
It is not art, it is not transcendental philosophy, nor is it artisinal craft.
It is just a brand.
The confusion is in whose brand is it? Is it BB, is it TB, is BF a new brand?
It is also not as though TB is now the chief designer for BB.
BF is just a brand.
It is expensive, and illicits desire from some and distain from others.
It may be ghastly in its perversion of fashion, it may be devine.
Alas, its still just a brand.
macuser3of5
Distinguished Member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
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- 2,526
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- 15
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