Mad Men Season 4

Originally Posted by KObalto

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Any decent restaurant served wine in the 60s. It's just that you only had 2 choices: red or white.

I'll take your word for it. Interestingly, here's the 1962 "Wines and Liquors" menu from Helsinki restaurant in New York. The only wine they seem to offer is port and sherry.

http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687461&t=w

In this 1959 lunch menu from Schrafft's Restaurant on Fifth Ave. or 42nd St, NY, wine isn't mentioned. Just an Old Fashioned, Gibson, Daiquiri, and Manhattan.

http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687435&t=w

In the 1957 menu at The Forum of the Twelve Caesars (probably in New York?), it seems their "wine selection" is limited to "A Glass of Vintage Port" under the "The Cheeses of Europa" section.
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687480&t=w

Originally Posted by ektaylor

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I'll take your word for it. Interestingly, here's the 1962 "Wines and Liquors" menu from Helsinki restaurant in New York. The only wine they seem to offer is port and sherry. http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687461&t=w In this 1959 lunch menu from Schrafft's Restaurant on Fifth Ave. or 42nd St, NY, wine isn't mentioned. Just an Old Fashioned, Gibson, Daiquiri, and Manhattan. http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687435&t=w In the 1957 menu at The Forum of the Twelve Caesars (probably in New York?), it seems their "wine selection" is limited to "A Glass of Vintage Port" under the "The Cheeses of Europa" section. http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687480&t=w
I'm backing away from the possibility that she had a martini. They would have given her a martini glass. But it didn't look like a wine glass either. Margarita? Another gin drink? And all your menus are too old, right? Couldn't those restaurants have a separate wine menu?

Originally Posted by KObalto

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Any decent restaurant served wine in the 60s. It's just that you only had 2 choices: red or white.

Wine by the glass was rare in restaurants in the 60's. But roses from Portugal were popular and marketed heavily (Matuse and Lancers).

Originally Posted by rlx

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Wine by the glass was rare in restaurants in the 60's. But roses from Portugal were popular and marketed heavily (Matuse and Lancers).

Forgot all about those roses. They were popular.

Originally Posted by ektaylor

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I'll take your word for it. Interestingly, here's the 1962 "Wines and Liquors" menu from Helsinki restaurant in New York. The only wine they seem to offer is port and sherry.

http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687461&t=w

In this 1959 lunch menu from Schrafft's Restaurant on Fifth Ave. or 42nd St, NY, wine isn't mentioned. Just an Old Fashioned, Gibson, Daiquiri, and Manhattan.

http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687435&t=w

In the 1957 menu at The Forum of the Twelve Caesars (probably in New York?), it seems their "wine selection" is limited to "A Glass of Vintage Port" under the "The Cheeses of Europa" section.
http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687480&t=w

Beer isn't mentioned either, although I'm sure they served it. The first menu does purport to be the wine list though, complete with Champagnes.

Originally Posted by borderline

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I'm backing away from the possibility that she had a martini. They would have given her a martini glass. But it didn't look like a wine glass either. Margarita? Another gin drink? And all your menus are too old, right? Couldn't those restaurants have a separate wine menu?
The first one is relatively contemporary (1962). The other two were for a bit of context. That said, I would assume they would make note on the menus of an additional wine list (for example, http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1687373&t=w). But, even in that link (from 1956), wine isn't by the glass but by the case. "Vintage wines may be ordered by the case and reserved in our wine cellar." Even in this 1963 menu from Stokholm Restaurant -- a restaurant so great it makes sure you know by stating in bold capital letters, "We serve prime graded beef exclusively. Only a select few restaurants in the U.S. can make this statement" -- wine isn't mentioned. These examples are from a very limited library of old menus, so I'm not sure if they are representative of NY at large.

Originally Posted by gomestar

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I think this new agency gives Don a lot of interesting power. At SC, Roger was very clearly above Don on the pecking order ... now, it doesn't necessarily feel that way, even when Roger is scolding Don. It brings me back to the scene where Roger invites himself over to Don's house and hits on Betty big time - and I wonder how that would boil over if that were to happen with the current dynamic they have in the new office.

I don't think he would even consider that now. First, Don alpha-male'd him by drinking him under the table then running him up the stairwells, which caused him to throw up in front of some clients. I think Roger may have figured out that all that was payback for hitting on Betty, and whether he wants to admit it to himself or not, he got pwned. Second, Don had his hat in his hand (or at least pretended to) when he and Cooper went to Roger to get his buy-in for starting the new agency, and Roger pretty well busted Don's balls about it - I forget the context, but Roger said "I want to hear it from him", meaning Don, and at another point Don said something like "I mean it now", or "I'm saying it now" to Roger. Point being, in Roger's mind Don kissed his ass, which probably satisfied his ego.

I would assume that that Bert and Roger technically have seniority since they (presumably) put up more money than anyone else towards the new agency. That said, Don's now a partner so he has climbed the ladder, and Roger's smart enough to know that it's more important to sustain and grow the business than to throw his weight around or otherwise jeopardize his investment.

Re-watched the 1st ep last night. I am finding it weird to see Don trying to impress a woman, he's never really had to do that. Not to mention he actually gets shot down.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Wasn't it at an Xmas party the guy got his foot lawn-mowed off?


No, it was July 3, I think, because there was complaining about the British canceling the Independence Day holiday.

Originally Posted by Teacher

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I think it was.

Originally Posted by skidsm

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No, it was July 3, I think, because there was complaining about the British canceling the Independence Day holiday.

was just about to post this.

Originally Posted by skidsm

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No, it was July 3, I think, because there was complaining about the British canceling the Independence Day holiday.

Yup, you're right. Now I remember that.

what was that one party when everybody drank all that mint schnapps?

fun fact: the football game Don was watching was a Cornell vs. Princeton game from 1964

Originally Posted by sonick

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Re-watched the 1st ep last night. I am finding it weird to see Don trying to impress a woman, he's never really had to do that. Not to mention he actually gets shot down.

YOu need to watch the first two seasons again and remember the trolls he was gallivanting around with. Then reconsider your post.

Originally Posted by gomestar

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fun fact: the football game Don was watching was a Cornell vs. Princeton game from 1964

Clash of the Titans, eh?

Why on earth would that even be televised?