anyone ever use tom fords mtm program?

That look is too monochromatic.

Slightly different proposition, but why not TF RTW altered by one of the skilled tailors in NYC as opposed to TF MTM? Some have said that the result is basically the same and you may be able to get a RTW suit on sale at Bergoodman.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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I never said that any good bespoke tailor would do it, but that they could. Let's look at what we're talking about here: wide lapels, roped shoulders, a 'pagoda' shoulder line, waist supression, and a fifth sleeve button. I'm no expert, but the only thing that might give pause to a competent tailor is the shoulder line; yet it is also not something that Tom Ford invented. If the workers at the Zegna factory can do it, what makes you think it would be so hard for someone on Savile Row or in other parts of Italy?

So if it's a matter of competency at basic tailoring skills, any decent off-Row tailor should be able to replicate Rubinacci at about half the price, right?

Originally Posted by A Y

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I think you're the only person who has tried to define the Tom Ford look in this thread. And it's not clear to me that your list of styling details uniquely determine the Tom Ford look. Perhaps you have seen TF stuff in real life, but if not, it seems like overreaching to divine the essence of TF-ness from just still pictures, much like how some might try to find the essence of Rubinacci-ness from your pictures.

--Andre

I believe others identified qualities associated with the Tom Ford look. If they haven't, then the look goes undefined. In that case, don't you wonder: what is it, is it unique, can someone else do it?

are their any NY bespoke tailors who tend to lean toward making a modern cut with wide notched lapels, lots of waist supression, roped shoulders, etc etc like TF?

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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So if it's a matter of competency at basic tailoring skills, any decent off-Row tailor should be able to replicate Rubinacci at about half the price, right?

Perhaps you missed the distinction I made earlier. I don't believe Rubinacci's house style is a result of mere fashion; it is also the result of decades of tailoring experience and knowledge. I imagine many bespoke tailors are this way. If one tailor is unable to replicate the work of another, it is as likely a matter of skill and method as it is of taste.

In contrast, nothing identified as distinctive of a Tom Ford suit seems to require a generally competent bespoke tailor to have any specialized skill or experience--except for maybe the shoulder line, which I admit is rarely seen (but is this because tailors don't or can't make them?).

Iammatt refers to the overall Tom Ford look as encompassing more than just the suits. I can't say how likely one is to replicate this by assembling parts from other sources, but I think it's a different matter from whether or not a Tom Ford suit is a unique, original thing.

Originally Posted by AvariceBespoke

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are their any NY bespoke tailors who tend to lean toward making a modern cut with wide notched lapels, lots of waist supression, roped shoulders, etc etc like TF?
You need to separate the two. Do you want any old modern suit with big lapels and those other characteristics, or do you want Tom Ford?

The influx of all this "designer" crap is why I left SF for a year. I hope threads don't start heading down the SoCal/Thom4Life/Jil/TomFord/[enter famous runway name here] path again.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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Perhaps you missed the distinction I made earlier. I don't believe Rubinacci's house style is a result of mere fashion; it is also the result of decades of tailoring experience and knowledge. I imagine many bespoke tailors are this way. If one tailor is unable to replicate the work of another, it is as likely a matter of skill and method as it is of taste.
I didn't miss your distinction, I just don't buy it. You're paying for Rubinacci's taste, same as Tom Ford customers are paying for his. And, as the other Matt suggests, Rubinacci wouldn't copy Ford anyway. I can't imagine any tailor you'd consider using would. Imagine walking into A&S and asking for a copy of Ford. Or Gieves. Or Cheo or Shattuck. Who you gonna hire? Even if you found an extremely flexible tailor, would you be happy with the result? Imagine Ford by Poole. Or Ford by Chan. At best, you're getting a poor man's copy. Similarly, we can simplify Rubinacci down to a handfull of hallmarks, just as you simplify Ford's. Surely any decent tailor can make me a soft coat with a bit of fullness in the chest and lightly padded shoulders? After all, the client is the one directing this show to get just the look he wants, right? Rubinacci has no exclusive right to these things. Your entire premise seems built on an insult: That Tom Ford's stuff is entirely the product of "fashion" (as though all men's clothing isn't), and therefore he has no claim to the "taste" you're willing to pay for from Rubinacci.

Originally Posted by zjpj83

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The influx of all this "designer" crap is why I left SF for a year. I hope threads don't start heading down the SoCal/Thom4Life/Jil/TomFord/[enter famous runway name here] path again.

I think the TB debate was helpful and at the end of the day, Thom Browne makes some very wearable items with very good construction. I have no experience with Ford, but Zegna makes a good product. jil had shoes made by Lattanzi at one point, not sure who does the tailored clothing there. Not really sure how this "designer crap" is any different than Ralph Lauren.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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I didn't miss your distinction, I just don't buy it. And, in your last sentence, you contradict it. You're paying for Rubinacci's taste, same as Tom Ford customers are paying for his. And, as the other Matt suggests, Rubinacci wouldn't copy Ford anyway. I can't imagine any tailor you'd consider using would. Imagine walking into A&S and asking for a copy of Ford. Or Gieves. Or Cheo or Shattuck. Who you gonna hire? Even if you found an extremely flexible tailor, would you be happy with the result? Imagine Ford by Poole. Or Ford by Chan. At best, you're getting a poor man's copy.

Again, why do you think Tom Ford would be that hard to copy? Put in another way: Tom Ford's suits just don't seem that remarkable. It's not like he's doing things other makers aren't doing or can't do.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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Similarly, we can simplify Rubinacci down to a handfull of hallmarks, just as you simplify Ford's. Surely any decent tailor can make me a soft coat with a bit of fullness in the chest and lightly padded shoulders? After all, the client is the one directing this show to get just the look he wants, right? Rubinacci has no exclusive right to these things.

From my understanding, drape in the chest and unpadded shoulders are not matters of mere aesthetic choice, but reflections of a unique approach to tailoring. So no, I don't think just any tailor could do would Rubinacci does. Otherwise you'd see a lot more of it and we'd all be Chan customers instead of going to Naples.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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Your entire premise seems built on an insult: That Tom Ford's stuff is entirely the product of "fashion" (as though all men's clothing isn't), and therefore he has no claim to the "taste" you're willing to pay for from Rubinacci.

Why is this an insult? Some people value fashion a great deal and don't understand why I choose to wear things that are so unfashionable.

Originally Posted by LabelKing

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Yes, I think Sexton or perhaps one of those old military tailors like Welsh & Jefferies, Dege & Skinner could make a shaped suit of that sort. Also, maybe John Pearse but he tends to do a more streamlined look.

The difference between Sexton and the Row firms is the personal sensibility of the former versus the more bureaucratic structure of the latter. I don't think cutters on the Row are very free to follow their own personal whims, and personality is exactly what makes people search out someone like Sexton or Ford.

Basically, one co-opts the style and sensibility of a designer, and has to fit that into their own life. Perhaps that is the main objection to designer offerings?

Originally Posted by iammatt

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People are missing the point, I think . . .

I think Armani is similar in that way.

Ford is small enough still that I think his brand can deliver a very specific product.

Before I went bespoke, I explored Armani MTM.

After the suit arrived in Beverly Hills and was subsequently poorly altered, the GA folks sent me to Chicago and NYC to have their tailors correct the problems . . . still very poorly done and the suit was ultimately returned.

Armani has gotten too diluted, too large IMO. Unless you're a Russian oil magnate and receiving the personal attention of Mr. Armani's personal stylists and tailors, even their MTM program might not be up to snuff.

That said, I've seen an alteration tailor at the Costa Mesa GA do some pretty thorough fitting.

YMMV.

- M

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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From my understanding, drape in the chest and unpadded shoulders are not matters of mere aesthetic choice, but reflections of a unique approach to tailoring. So no, I don't think just any tailor could do would Rubinacci does. Otherwise you'd see a lot more of it and we'd all be Chan customers instead of going to Naples.

Isn't Rubinacci based on the Scholte cut to begin with? Apart from the obvious case of Anderson and Sheppard, it seems a fair number of tailors have offered something derived from Scholte over the years.

Originally Posted by AvariceBespoke

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Aside from the fabrics & styling - can I assume the quality of construction / process of Tom Ford MTM is comparable to Zegna?

IT'S MADE BY ZEGNA!