anyone ever use tom fords mtm program?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by AvariceBespoke, Nov 16, 2008.

  1. AvariceBespoke

    AvariceBespoke Senior member

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    I haven't the patience to read through this entire thread, but having been through the Tom Ford process at the Madison ave. store, and having done a great deal of requisite leg-work first in attempting to find another way of having a Tom Ford-esque suit made, I can say the following:

    1. Yes, by all means critique the Tom Ford style. It is not for everyone. The shoulders are roped, the waist is very suppressed, the cut is extremely angular and fitted, the lapels can be used for power skiing. If you are heavy in any way, I would not recommend it. This is not a magic cut that will transform your Joe beer-gut into Daniel Craig. However, if you are of average proportions, have the money, and like the cut- go for it. It took several fittings but in the end, the suit was exactly what I wanted, and could not have been replicated anywhere.

    2. As to my last point- this suit could not have been made anywhere at this price point. Yes, by all means, talk to me about Zegna, who effectively makes the suit but will not give you a Tom Ford model regardless of what you pay them, or Savile Row, who can give you something approximating Tom Ford, as seen through a Savile Row lense, and for largely the same price (arguably it may be better fitted or better made, being true bespoke, but you won't easily find the same fabrics or get the exact same cut without giving them a suit to reverse-engineer).

    3. All this argument about whether or not TF cuts are good and bad- quite honestly, extremely unhelpful. Go and start another thread if you want to critique Ford's take on a modern silhouette, I'm sure there's already one there for you. This is not a thread about taste, but rather one in which taste has already been established. We're supposed to be helping this gentleman locate alternatives to paying Tom Ford, and many on here aren't being very helpful at all.

    4. The people at the Ford store are gracious, and they do a solid job when it comes to altering the suit when it comes in from the factory. Is it worth the extra thousands? No, I don't think so, but neither do I think that you're buying a Ford suit in order to sit around upstairs, look at the Bonsai trees, and drink scotch.

    Thus, I conclude, if you want a Tom Ford suit, get a Tom Ford suit. There are no other alternatives. If you want something that is somewhat LIKE a Tom Ford suit, for less money, you could try cheap bespoke, but Savile Row won't get you a suit for $5,000 (last I checked), and less expensive bespoke will only get you an approximation of a Ford suit.

    EI

    P.S.: Mff-- Tom Ford has a way of constructing his suits so that everything gels correctly and looks like a Tom Ford suit. Rubinacci has the same, as do AS, Kilgour, Gieves and Hawkes, etcetera. Whether the intricate means by which TF constructs his suits to look like a TF suit are more or less advanced than any of these bespoke makers is an argument for people that make suits. For the purposes of this thread, I would wager that unless I brought a TF suit to one of these makers for them to reconstruct, they would not be able to construct a TF suit on the first go-round. Any further comment should be reserved for those with actual tailoring background.


    do you have any photos you could post or PM? your TF Suit
     


  2. edmorel

    edmorel Quality Seller!! Dubiously Honored

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    another great suit:
    [​IMG]


    A. Liv Tyler makes me frisky everytime I see her.
    B. that is a wideeeeeee tie and knot on TF, but he pulls it off with the super wide lapels.
     


  3. AvariceBespoke

    AvariceBespoke Senior member

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    I haven't the patience to read through this entire thread, but having been through the Tom Ford process at the Madison ave. store, and having done a great deal of requisite leg-work first in attempting to find another way of having a Tom Ford-esque suit made, I can say the following:

    1. Yes, by all means critique the Tom Ford style. It is not for everyone. The shoulders are roped, the waist is very suppressed, the cut is extremely angular and fitted, the lapels can be used for power skiing. If you are heavy in any way, I would not recommend it. This is not a magic cut that will transform your Joe beer-gut into Daniel Craig. However, if you are of average proportions, have the money, and like the cut- go for it. It took several fittings but in the end, the suit was exactly what I wanted, and could not have been replicated anywhere.

    2. As to my last point- this suit could not have been made anywhere at this price point. Yes, by all means, talk to me about Zegna, who effectively makes the suit but will not give you a Tom Ford model regardless of what you pay them, or Savile Row, who can give you something approximating Tom Ford, as seen through a Savile Row lense, and for largely the same price (arguably it may be better fitted or better made, being true bespoke, but you won't easily find the same fabrics or get the exact same cut without giving them a suit to reverse-engineer).

    3. All this argument about whether or not TF cuts are good and bad- quite honestly, extremely unhelpful. Go and start another thread if you want to critique Ford's take on a modern silhouette, I'm sure there's already one there for you. This is not a thread about taste, but rather one in which taste has already been established. We're supposed to be helping this gentleman locate alternatives to paying Tom Ford, and many on here aren't being very helpful at all.

    4. The people at the Ford store are gracious, and they do a solid job when it comes to altering the suit when it comes in from the factory. Is it worth the extra thousands? No, I don't think so, but neither do I think that you're buying a Ford suit in order to sit around upstairs, look at the Bonsai trees, and drink scotch.

    Thus, I conclude, if you want a Tom Ford suit, get a Tom Ford suit. There are no other alternatives. If you want something that is somewhat LIKE a Tom Ford suit, for less money, you could try cheap bespoke, but Savile Row won't get you a suit for $5,000 (last I checked), and less expensive bespoke will only get you an approximation of a Ford suit.

    EI

    P.S.: Mff-- Tom Ford has a way of constructing his suits so that everything gels correctly and looks like a Tom Ford suit. Rubinacci has the same, as do AS, Kilgour, Gieves and Hawkes, etcetera. Whether the intricate means by which TF constructs his suits to look like a TF suit are more or less advanced than any of these bespoke makers is an argument for people that make suits. For the purposes of this thread, I would wager that unless I brought a TF suit to one of these makers for them to reconstruct, they would not be able to construct a TF suit on the first go-round. Any further comment should be reserved for those with actual tailoring background.


    How much should I expect to spend on a TF suit? $5k + tax?
     


  4. unpainted huffheinz

    unpainted huffheinz Senior member

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    Originally, I was wondering if anyone here has ever used Tom Ford's MTM program. I understand Zegna constructs the suit in their factory but was wondering how the finish product came, how TF's service is at the store on Madison (i've been but never upstairs where they do MTM), what the fabric selection is, how they liked the end product, turnaround time, etc etc

    Supposedly Zegna has made fabrics exclusive to Tom Ford. There was an article about the stuff he made for the Bond film that touches on this.

    I've only examined the RTW clothing, which is probably useful to you to try on before committing to the MTM program just to see how if fits.
     


  5. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    No, my reasoning stems from the fact that nobody here has defined the Tom Ford look to be anything more than a set of styling cues; these cues were not invented by Tom Ford and can easily be incorporated by someone else.

    So if I went to Rubinacci and told him I wanted Tom Ford, complete with crazy pagoda shoulders and all the caricature that comes with it, do you think the venture would be successful at something other than offending Rubinacci?
     


  6. AvariceBespoke

    AvariceBespoke Senior member

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    A. Liv Tyler makes me frisky everytime I see her.
    B. that is a wideeeeeee tie and knot on TF, but he pulls it off with the super wide lapels.


    that suit is exactly what im looking for i like the wide knot/lapels/tie with the waist supression
     


  7. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    You did not respond to my point at all, which was if one likes the offering of vendor A then why fuck around with vendors B, C, D, etc in order to replicate A? It makes no sense. I might not even completely disagree that Tom Ford is just slight tweaks on a historical style, but that is not really the point I'm making.

    If someone likes what vendor A sells merely because it is sold by vendor A, then, of course, one has no choice but to purchase from vendor A to get what he wants. But if someone likes vendor A's offering because it has qualities x, y, and z, and Vendor B sells something that also has qualities x, y, and z, but has additional beneficial qualities or a lower price, the buyer is better off with vendor B.

    That's why I admitted that if one wants something from Tom Ford because they just need to have something made by Tom Ford, there is nothing worth exploring beyond that. But if someone likes Tom Ford suits because they have certain features, it is only natural to wonder where else one might find those features and whether the final product might be superior.

    If someone states that there is some sort of original Tom Ford 'design' that cannot be copied or found elsewhere, it is only natural to question whether such a thing exists and what it is.

    I am merely identifyig the basis for discussion between two people of differing minds. You assume your conclusion; this is a tragedy of logic, not law. Do you want me to use smaller words next time?
     


  8. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    No, my reasoning stems from the fact that nobody here has defined the Tom Ford look to be anything more than a set of styling cues; these cues were not invented by Tom Ford and can easily be incorporated by someone else.

    I think you're the only person who has tried to define the Tom Ford look in this thread. And it's not clear to me that your list of styling details uniquely determine the Tom Ford look. Perhaps you have seen TF stuff in real life, but if not, it seems like overreaching to divine the essence of TF-ness from just still pictures, much like how some might try to find the essence of Rubinacci-ness from your pictures.

    --Andre
     


  9. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt The Liberator Dubiously Honored

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    People are missing the point, I think.

    1. If you want a suit with high shoulders, a nipped waist, shiney fabrics and wide lapels, you can pretty much have anybody make that. Hell, it seems to be the Chan house style, but with wider lapels.

    2. If you want the Tom Ford "look," you need to go through him, because it is a look that is complete, and requires the right shirt fabrics, and certainly the Tom Ford ties. They all go together, and my guess is that none of them look very good with pieces from other designers or manufacturers. I think Armani is similar in that way.
     


  10. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt The Liberator Dubiously Honored

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    So if I went to Rubinacci and told him I wanted Tom Ford, complete with crazy pagoda shoulders and all the caricature that comes with it, do you think the venture would be successful at something other than offending Rubinacci?
    He would tell you that he refuses to make a "manica salame."
     


  11. unpainted huffheinz

    unpainted huffheinz Senior member

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    I am merely identifyig the basis for discussion between two people of differing minds. You assume your conclusion; this is a tragedy of logic, not law. Do you want me to use smaller words next time?

    No, I would only ask you to ratchet down your typical level of condescension to a less insufferable level. Thanks.
     


  12. mmkn

    mmkn Senior member

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    You did not respond to my point at all . . . the most miserable bit of lawyer bullshit I have run across in some time.

    Don't fall for it UH (Mr. Fan's occasional practice of his profession on internet fora).

    - M
     


  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    So if I went to Rubinacci and told him I wanted Tom Ford, complete with crazy pagoda shoulders and all the caricature that comes with it, do you think the venture would be successful at something other than offending Rubinacci?

    I never said that any good bespoke tailor would do it, but that they could. Let's look at what we're talking about here: wide lapels, roped shoulders, a 'pagoda' shoulder line, waist supression, and a fifth sleeve button. I'm no expert, but the only thing that might give pause to a competent tailor is the shoulder line; yet it is also not something that Tom Ford invented. If the workers at the Zegna factory can do it, what makes you think it would be so hard for someone on Savile Row or in other parts of Italy?

    Moreover, it's unclear what Tom-Ford-as-applied-to-Jon-Smith is supposed to look like. Tom Ford is not God, and therefore could not have anticipated what he his suits are suposed to look like on every potential customer. For all you know, someone else will do a better job of getting you that look on you.
     


  14. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Edward Sexton could possibly deliver the Tom Ford ideal better than Ford himself could. Sexton has immense personal style, and I can see Ford studying him and Tommy Nutter for inspiration.

    Asking Huntsman, Poole or one of the traditional houses to do a Tom Ford sounds like an unmitigated disaster to me though. In fact, Ford has said publicly that the Savile Row firms he was using for his own clothes could not deliver what he wanted, and thus began his current venture because of that.


    Yes, I think Sexton or perhaps one of those old military tailors like Welsh & Jefferies, Dege & Skinner could make a shaped suit of that sort. Also, maybe John Pearse but he tends to do a more streamlined look.

    A. Liv Tyler makes me frisky everytime I see her.
    B. that is a wideeeeeee tie and knot on TF, but he pulls it off with the super wide lapels.


    I feel his lapels aren't as wide as the ones on my brown jacket.
     


  15. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt The Liberator Dubiously Honored

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    Originally, I was wondering if anyone here has ever used Tom Ford's MTM program. I understand Zegna constructs the suit in their factory but was wondering how the finish product came, how TF's service is at the store on Madison (i've been but never upstairs where they do MTM), what the fabric selection is, how they liked the end product, turnaround time, etc etc

    another great suit:
    [​IMG]

    The more I see Tom Ford, the more I think B&B Italia.
     


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