yet another evaluate my Jantzen shirt thread

[brittain]

Here are the details on my first Jantzen. I washed/dried it twice and did a quick iron myself. The fabric is alright, but feels more like a non-iron shirt than I usually prefer- it doesnt have that slight sheen I like- but thats probably my fault for going with a twill. Im definitely going to add some length to the sleeves, some extra width to the sleeves, a little more room in the wrists, change out the buttons, switch collars to something larger, and perhaps a couple more tweaks. When I first put it on, it felt pretty slim, but looking at these pics it doesnt look as tight as I thought it was. What are you guys' suggestions? Jantzen*2087, White Fine Twill with Blue Double Squares, 110's, 2 Ply, 110% Italian Cotton Shirt Length: 32 Chest: 48 Waist: 46 Hip: Shoulder: 19 Sleeve Length: 35 Neck: 16.5 Height: 6'1" Weight: 183 lbs Wrist Size ( No Allowance): 9 Special for Thicker Watch: Left Hand 1/4" Bigger Shirt Fitting: Form (4"-6" Allowance) Share of Shoulder: Regular Shoulder Shade of Body: Normal Shade Collar Style: Collar Style # 3, (Simi Spread) Collar Stay: Removable Collar Stay Interlining: Regular Tie space: 1/8" (Standard) Back Height: 1 1/2" (Standard) Stitching for Collar & Cuff: 1/4" (Our Standard) Collar Point: 2 5/8" (Standard) Color of Button Hole and Button Thread: White Cuff Style: Single Cuff Style #5S (Round Double Button) Contract Collar: Self Collar & Cuff Cuff Height: 3" (Long) Pocket Style : Select one Number of Pocket: No Pocket Front Placket: Plain Front Width of Placket: Select one Sleeve: Long Sleeve Sleeves **** Extra Button: Without Sleeves **** Extra Buttons Shirt Tail: Regular Tail Shoulder Pleat: No Pleat Select one: With Split Yoke Gusset Triangle Color: Self Colour Button Seclections:: Nature Designed 1.25 diameter (M.O.P.) Monogram Style: Monogram Style #6 Monogram Placing: Inside the Yoke Initial: B Monogram Color: Self Colour

detail of the buttons- they are more like toggles than buttons- Im not a fan. next time I'll switch to something a little flatter.

detail of the buttonholes and fabric.

 

[a tailor]

i think the shoulders could be sloped a bit.
its hard to tell about the sides with all the bunching up. a pic with shitr hanging out would help. but i think its too tight in the hips.

 

[brittain]

 

[mullivan]

Not bad at all for a first shirt. Those buttons are terrible though, I really don't even know why he sells them.

 

[LeatherSOUL]

Looks good but I'd want to take some in around the waist and add length to the sleeves.

Not bad for $50!

 

[jcriswel]

It looks like you really have a handle on your Jantzen shirt. I notice that you have a BMI of 24.1 which means that you are at the high end of normal. That means you have the body mass to fill your shirts out. I notice in your post that you plan to:

1. lengthen the sleeves
   
2. add width to the sleeves
   
3. add room to the wrists
   
4. change out buttons
   
5. switch collar to something larger

I agree that all of the modifications that you have identified will improve the shirt.

• Re: 1 - The sleeves definitely need to be longer. I would add at least an inch (36 versus 35). I would consider going to 36.5.
  
• Re: 2 - I'm not certain why you want to do this. I think the arm hole is spot on - don't change that. The biceps look good to me. Perhaps you're referring to the forearms. They look a little tight. If you let them out, the sleeves will probably feel more comfortable.
  
• Re: 3 - You have no room for your watch on the left wrist. Instead of 1/4" bigger, perhaps you should try 1/2".
  
• Re: 4 - No comment about the buttons. That is personal preference.
  
• Re: 5 - I completely agree that a larger collar would balance the shape of your neck and head. You have a full neck and head and you need a larger collar for balance.

Additional considerations:

• I'm concerned about the amount of loose material in the back above your belt. I see you requested no pleat. I think having pleats, either side or box, would help with this issue. You could also reduce the waist and hips. You have 46" for the waist - perhaps you could take as much as 4" out of the waist and hips proportionately. You might also consider darts in the back.
  
  
• You might want to think about the yoke/shoulders. I see that you requested "regular" shoulders. As mentioned in an earlier post, your shoulders do have a slope. Think about changing the shape of the shoulders. I notice that you requested a split yoke. Was that personal preference of did you have a specific reason for that? Looking at your front view, it appears that your left shoulder is lower than your right. I don't see that in the back view. You have a split yoke; perhaps you should consider a split and mitered yoke which might help to compensate for sloping shoulders, or an unbalanced slope. However, this is hard to get right with a MTO shirt (usually a feature resevered for bespoke).
  
  
• BTW, I notice that you say the shirting is 110% Italian Cotton. How is it possible to go over 100%?
  
  
• Otherwise, I think you're on the way to an outstanding fit on your shirt.

 

[11211]

cool fabric.

 

[Lawman]

I think it looks great.

 

[billiebob]

Looks better than many shirts I see posted/

 

[a tailor]

110% cotton? only the italians could do that. he he

 

[a tailor]

the front view shows a right low shoulder. but the back view shows a left low. i think the shirt was not put on squarely. thats why a tailor will adjust a jacket before doing a fitting. but the appearance and law of averages points to a right low.
all the other suggestions are good except the hips. the hips should be a bit looser.
when the hips are tight, each time you move the cloth creeps up toward the waist and comes out at the waist. snug cloth will seek an area of less resistance.

 

[jcriswel]

Originally Posted by a tailor

the front view shows a right low shoulder. but the back view shows a left low. i think the shirt was not put on squarely. thats why a tailor will adjust a jacket before doing a fitting. but the appearance and law of averages points to a right low.
all the other suggestions are good except the hips. the hips should be a bit looser.
when the hips are tight, each time you move the cloth creeps up toward the waist and comes out at the waist. snug cloth will seek an area of less resistance.

uhhh... is number 1. above the front view you're referring to? If it is, that looks like the left shoulder to me. Or, do you think number 1. is higher than the opposite shoulder?

The OP could resolve this issue by taking another picture, front and back, wearing just a t-shirt on top and trousers etc.

I think your statement about the shirt not being put on squarely is the right answer.

Good comment about the hips... perhaps just the waist needs adjusting and leave the hips alone.

 

[adambparker]

Wow -- very impressive for a first Jantzen.

Who took your measurements?

 

[brittain]

Thanks for all the informative feedback from everyone. many of your comments were in line with what I noticed myself, but its always good to get another perspective. the first measurements were taken from an existing shirt that I already have and like the fit. I just ordered my second shirt. For this one, I have made the following changes: -- added an inch of length -- added 1.5" to the sleeves -- gone up 1/4" on the wrist -- taken an inch off the waist -- changed to a sloped shoulder -- let the hips out 1". -- switched to a more normal button -- changed to a larger collar JCriswell- thanks for your detailed input. Im curious about the pleat though- wouldnt adding a shoulder pleat make the lower back fuller instead of slimmer? As for the 110% italian cloth- good catch to both of you- thats what I get for copy/pasting from the website. Fortunately their shirts are better than their Engrish. For this shirt, Im going with this fabric. Its only 100% Italian

I would prefer it to be a better fabric, but I'll try it out and see how the 100s stuff is. Stripe #548, Light Blue Hair-Line with White/Navy/Grey Broad Stripes, 100's, 2 Ply, 100% Italian Cotton

 

[jcriswel]

Originally Posted by brittain

JCriswell- thanks for your detailed input. Im curious about the pleat though- wouldnt adding a shoulder pleat make the lower back fuller instead of slimmer?

brittain,

I am not a shirt tailor although I have purchased many shirts (RTW and MTM) over the years. This is my understanding of the design of the back of a shirt. The drawing below represents the back piece of a shirt after it has been cut from the shirting. (My drawing is greatly exaggerated to demonstrate the principle.)

The shirt designer is trying to construct the back of the shirt to conform to the shape of your back. Looking at the back facing directly toward it, the normal shape of a man's back is an inverted triangle. Looking at the the back from the side, it is more parabolic - that is the upper back protrudes outward and the lower back protrudes inward. How does the designer create a shirt to accommodate this shape and mimimize the amount of billowing in the back?

He cuts the piece as I have drawn giving more room in the upper back and less in the waist. He allows sufficient room in the hips so that the lower part of the shirt does not creep upward because it does not have sufficient room to remain where it is.

The use of pleats below the yoke give the larger and protruding upper back some room. Further, remember that you have shoulder blades. They move around. It would be uncomfortable and unflattering if you did not have enough room in the upper back of the shirt to give the blades freedom to move. The Italians like darts in the mid-lower back area to help accommodate the concavity of the lower back.

You keep the lower back of the shirt from billowing by suppressing the waist of the shirt, giving the hip area of the shirt enough room to avoid creeping up, and possibly using darts to get the fit closer to the lower back.

If any shirt tailors or others with knowledge of shirt construction wish to critique my analysis, please feel free. Anyway, the purpose of upper back pleats is to give the larger upper back more room and to give the shoulder blades room to move around.