What stereo(s) do you listen to? What do you want?

[Medwed]



Plenty of fantastic integrated amps from the mid 80's with excellent phono stages (MC included) to be had in that price range. Back when cds hadn't become popular, good phono stages were usually not separate components, but part of high end preamps and integrated amps.

Plenty to choose from, but I would give Accuphase gear the nod....no real weak points...nice amplification, great line stage and excellent phono stage. For low output moving coil they even use a first rate head amp instead of the usual step up transformer. Nice build quality and I love the understated, dressy aesthetic they have have never changed. If Patek Philippe made audio components, this is what I imagine they would look like.

You kidding right? Mid 80 is where all the Hi Fi mega-stores were in full swing competing on size and output power.
May be Accuphase is an exception even for 1985 models and later, but other gear from that ear has terrible reputation.

 

[idfnl]



The one guy you encountered is just too isolated and anecdotal to support your theory. I'm in Toronto and cruise Canuckaudiomart on a regular basis. Accuphase isn't a common brand showing up on the used market at all. It may get snapped up because for that reason...plus they offer great value and sound great. Accuphase was never anything but high end. In the 70's, they were referred to as the "Japanese McIntosh", but they sound nothing like them. They have some of the longest model runs in the business, as they aren't gimmicky...just take the time to come up with a superior product and update when they have come up with an authentic improvement.
I was referring to your "suffers from being Japanese" comment. The "soulless" comment was another issue altogether. You are the only instance where I have heard Accuphase gear refereed to as "soulless".
But I wasn't talking about that stuff. Lots of electronics companies sold cheap stuff to the masses. Accuphase isn't one of them. All of the big Japanese electronics companies...Pioneer, Sony, Luxman, Teac(Esoteric), Yamaha, Denon, Sansui, Onkyo, Marantz all had high end series in the 80's/90's. Obviously this stuff was not sold in chain stores and most would never have heard of them....many never even sold in NA. They were very expensive, but still offered value as smaller companies couldn't compete with their R&D, engineering, manufacturing prowess and ability to put aside profit as the main motive (some probably lost money). This represents some of the ultimate hi-fi products of all time.
I have nothing against Linn or Naim...owned both...still have a pair of Linn Kan 2's with stands (not in use). I was only countering your claim of Accuphase having some kind of cult following...fans even have a nicknames (Naimies and Linnies). The old Naim chrome bumper (Naimisms ha) mono blocks are nice, but not in his price range, and lots of better stuff for the same money (including Japanese stuff) The Nait is simply not high end. Like I said...I owned one. Ever looked inside....minimal cheap parts and nothing groundbreaking about the design. It has no power or control and hence fatiguing to listen to. The fact that fans go into such minutia as red led vs green led version makes me shake my head. Similarly, I have a friend who couldn't afford Naim electronics (hardly anybody wanted the cheap Nait), so he went for the LP12/RB300/LS35A/AR60 combo. Man, that AR60 wasn't much better than the Nait. After 30-odd years with this fanboy go-to combo, he swapped out the AR60 for an 845 tube SET int. Talk about eye (ear) opening.

Oh, and BTW, features such as loudness controls or subsonic filters are not "junk" at all, but generally a myth created by small "audiophile" manufacturers to justify cost savings & and very often their lack of true design prowess. This idea did get into the water supply and manufacturers who wanted sales had to leave them out to make them sellable to the so-called audiophile market. On the contrary, compensating for shortcomings of the signal just needs to be designed/used correctly and don't have to degrade the signal at all.

It's not narrow and anecdotal, as I pointed out, in this region their equipment gets swallowed up very quickly. My subjective view is that it's without cause, as it never struck me as head and shoulders above other Japo brands. I don't follow Accuphase to the level that I understand their global appeal. I heard they were the Japanese Mcintosh, so I drew an inference based on that. Perhaps it's not. In my area it is.

I credit them for keeping to their roots and refining their internals versus sexy redesigns that result in little more than the same circuitry with new exteriors. These companies have limited resources, so a new exterior often indicates little different inside.

I appreciate this debate, and please continue. I think this tier of audio is much more interesting to lament upon than the extreme high end, which few of us have head and can afford.

Suffice it to say I will take an olive era Nap 180 over an Accuphase, but I prefer my Mcintosh monoblocks over both.

You kidding right? Mid 80 is where all the Hi Fi mega-stores were in full swing competing on size and output power.
May be Accuphase is an exception even for 1985 models and later, but other gear from that ear has terrible reputation.

Accuphase is an exception, but not enough so to warrant it's following.

 

[habitant]

Naim is nice for people who aren't into HiFi. A naim xs with a set of Totem Hawks will please most people.

 

[gam29]



Naim is nice for people who aren't into HiFi.

lolz...you can't be serious...

 

[gam29]

.

 

[freshcutgrass]



You kidding right? Mid 80 is where all the Hi Fi mega-stores were in full swing competing on size and output power.
May be Accuphase is an exception even for 1985 models and later, but other gear from that ear has terrible reputation.

That was the golden age of audio. I never bought anything from a big box store...you bought from one of your local independant hi fi stores, of which there was plenty (and now there are very few). I practically lived at Brack Electronics here in TO. They also had a huge trade-in section as I mostly bought my stuff used (and still do).

Point being, that at the time, vinyl was still king, and every manufacturer up to this point had to include a phono stage. So phono stages from this period represented the pinnacle of design. As the 80's came to a close and cd's took over, phono stages dropped like flies. Only now, with the resurgence of vinyl, have phono stages come back, but mostly as separates. There hasn't been any major advances in phono equalization technology, so the phono stage from a better component from that era will outperform anything today in the price range. In fact, many people by an older pre amp just to utilize the phono section (through a pre out or tape loop). You can spend less and get better.

The caveat being of course, that we are talking about 30 year old electronics. You may have to have it re-capped, etc. But good stuff is worth keeping up. Buy right, and you will have great sound and good resale value.

Come to think of it, most of my current system is from the 80's, because bang-for-buck, nothing current can touch it because it's from the golden age of hi fi. Speaking of phono sections, my 80's era Classe dr-7 has a phono section to die for.

 

[freshcutgrass]



Naim is nice for people who aren't into HiFi. A naim xs with a set of Totem Hawks will please most people.

I wouldn't say that. They are just a clique in the hi fi community. I've listened to the standard LP12/NAP-NAC/LS35A combo and I understand the appeal. Some people find that synergy the best and have no interest in anything beyond that.

I on the other hand, am a bit less formulaic and tend towards the more exotic.

 

[freshcutgrass]



It's not narrow and anecdotal, as I pointed out, in this region their equipment gets swallowed up very quickly. My subjective view is that it's without cause, as it never struck me as head and shoulders above other Japo brands.

I really don't know the source of your opinion, but like I said, it sounds more anecdotal rather than through direct comparison (as Accuphase is difficult to beat dollar-for-dollar). And you use the term "Japanese" like it represents a certain sound or level of quality. Accuphase is a brand that only makes high end. The big Japanese companies make everything from cheapo to the best ever made and everything in between. What models of what brands are you comparing?

Back to my original point...I had an 80's era Accuphase C-222 preamp with a brilliant phono stage that far outperforms any current phono stage under say $1500. (But my current DR-7 is even better. )

 

[habitant]



I wouldn't say that. They are just a clique in the hi fi community. I've listened to the standard LP12/NAP-NAC/LS35A combo and I understand the appeal. Some people find that synergy the best and have no interest in anything beyond that.

I on the other hand, am a bit less formulaic and tend towards the more exotic.

The naim sound is just a bit coloured and mellow, very easy to listen to but it does lack in resolution.

 

[Medwed]



That was the golden age of audio. I never bought anything from a big box store...you bought from one of your local independant hi fi stores, of which there was plenty (and now there are very few). I practically lived at Brack Electronics here in TO. They also had a huge trade-in section as I mostly bought my stuff used (and still do).

Point being, that at the time, vinyl was still king, and every manufacturer up to this point had to include a phono stage. So phono stages from this period represented the pinnacle of design. As the 80's came to a close and cd's took over, phono stages dropped like flies. Only now, with the resurgence of vinyl, have phono stages come back, but mostly as separates. There hasn't been any major advances in phono equalization technology, so the phono stage from a better component from that era will outperform anything today in the price range. In fact, many people by an older pre amp just to utilize the phono section (through a pre out or tape loop). You can spend less and get better.

The caveat being of course, that we are talking about 30 year old electronics. You may have to have it re-capped, etc. But good stuff is worth keeping up. Buy right, and you will have great sound and good resale value.

Come to think of it, most of my current system is from the 80's, because bang-for-buck, nothing current can touch it because it's from the golden age of hi fi. Speaking of phono sections, my 80's era Classe dr-7 has a phono section to die for.

Thanks, cool. I checked the Accu phono stages and they go for 700Eur. That is pricey for 30+ y.o. design. You say nothing improved in design of phono stages , what about opamps? If you not going to buy analog phono stage you probably end up with opamp-based today. I am pretty happy with my Grham Slee reflex C phono. However prety happy does not mean I am not interested in other options, it just hard to find and try this stuff especially vintage one ,so you either ignore everyone opinion until you try it yourself or you read esoteric websites that praise everything from 1950s and 60s. I wish audio people in my area held gear swaps.
I have some vintage Marantz gear that has significant following and although I love the looks and dual meters of my Marantz 170DC I don't think it is better than Ayre integrated or even Music Hall integrated modern designs. I just keep it on the shelf for decoration and rarely use it.

 

[SirReveller]

I got a vinty Marantz turntable. When I play records with people over I go "This is a Marantz."

 

[Medwed]



I got a vinty Marantz turntable. When I play records with people over I go "This is a Marantz."

I love the looks of them, aluminum with wood looks BOSS

 

[poorsod]

Have anyone heard the Kef LS50? I'm thinking of getting wireless active version. Is it worth the $$$?

 

[Medwed]



Have anyone heard the Kef LS50? I'm thinking of getting wireless active version. Is it worth the $$$?

Never heard them.
For the price I would also consider Devialet, especially if you are not too picky to sound reproduction and just want portability and impactfull bass/mid-range. If looking to Wi-Fi anything from portable device then there are dongles that could be plugged into any legacy audio system.

 

[idfnl]



Have anyone heard the Kef LS50? I'm thinking of getting wireless active version. Is it worth the $$$?

I have not listened to them, but they are very highly regarded.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker#4G2esU7sBg5QqjhX.97

Not sure about the wireless version.