Vintage Dress shoe appreciation, tips, maintenance and advice

[smfdoc]

I just HAPPENED to be on Ebay looking at shoes, and I found a pair of Stafford LWBs. I instantly thought, "Yuck, Stafford, J.C. Penny's, must be crap." But then I checked them out. Made in USA? check. Leather soles with a channel? check. Double stitching around the brogue? check. Pretty high stitch per inch? check. All in all, not a bad looking pair of shoes that appear t be fairly well made in USA. I can't get a feel for the leather quality, but they do not command much money and I just might have to get a pair to check them out closer. But like most retailers, there is certainly expected to be a spectrum of quality and price. Maybe these were just some of their better made shoes at the time. Anyone know who made them?

 

[Shoonoob]

Hey all - I scanned and posted a 1970 Hanover. Lots of great information. Check it out.

https://vcleat.com/hanover-1970-catalog/

Could you order me up some Eldorados in 9.5eee please.

 

[eazye]

My vintage fleet as of today, top row left to right:
Magina Shoes LTD shell Budapester, unknown 40's dress boots, Allen McAfee bench made, Church's
Middle row: Alden for Brooks Brothers shell short wings, Florsheim Imperial shell PTB v-cleats, Florsheim Imperial shell LWB v-cleats, Cheaney, Alden
Bottom row, Florsheim Imperial black shell PTB v-cleats, 70's era Crockett & Jones w/ commando sole, Church's

 

[suitforcourt]

I just HAPPENED to be on Ebay looking at shoes, and I found a pair of Stafford LWBs. I instantly thought, "Yuck, Stafford, J.C. Penny's, must be crap." But then I checked them out. Made in USA? check. Leather soles with a channel? check. Double stitching around the brogue? check. Pretty high stitch per inch? check. All in all, not a bad looking pair of shoes that appear t be fairly well made in USA. I can't get a feel for the leather quality, but they do not command much money and I just might have to get a pair to check them out closer. But like most retailers, there is certainly expected to be a spectrum of quality and price. Maybe these were just some of their better made shoes at the time. Anyone know who made them?

View attachment 1007453 View attachment 1007454 View attachment 1007455 View attachment 1007456

I have seen many pairs of Stafford in my size, and all were made in USA. Just by looking, quality I would compare to Dexter, B Mason, or Stuart McGuire. Still solid kickers.

Once you get them, give us a full review. I may have to grab a pair if they are hidden gems.

Tomorrow I am thrifting hard to find a pair for the challenge.

 

[PSU John]

Hey all - I scanned and posted a 1970 Hanover. Lots of great information. Check it out.

https://vcleat.com/hanover-1970-catalog/

Great posting of the Hanover catalog, David! I wonder which of that rogues gallery of management photos was most responsible for deciding that the solution to Hanover's overcapacity problems was to add a proliferation of lower quality "lines" with questionable styling choices. As early as the early 70's I was trying to buy quality classic shoes at the then-abundant Hanover retail (mall) stores, and was even then puzzled as to why their proliferation of styles included so many "flash-in-the pan" styles. I did buy one decent pair of PTBs in black pebble-grain that are still proudly in my 40-shoe rotation today. But even then it was "buyer beware" when you looked to Hanover for something of lasting value. RIP Hanover... and old "LB" can hopefully stop turning over in his grave, knowing that a few dedicated souls are even today carefully sifting through the ashes for the few jewels inspired by and for named for him.

 

[smfdoc]

Hey all - I scanned and posted a 1970 Hanover. Lots of great information. Check it out.

https://vcleat.com/hanover-1970-catalog/

Well that makes a great deal of sense and explains why I can't find a pair that fit well. I have owned a single pair of 11 EEE and they were a bit tight. No problem, I will just find a pair of 11.5 or 12, right? But they never come up. The catalog now shows in nearly every single case, the maximum size in a EEE was an 11.

 

[smfdoc]

Once you get them, give us a full review.

No, I left them where they were. I already have too many shoes that do not get worn enough. But the seed was planted and it may happen some day.

 

[wasmisterfu]

No, I left them where they were. I already have too many shoes that do not get worn enough. But the seed was planted and it may happen some day.

You dodged a bullet. One of the big issues with mid-grade American shoes during the 80’s and 90’s, as brands and factories slid into oblivion, is their primary method of cost cutting was via material cost reduction. Due to a combination of union rules (line speed, work assignments) and standardized processes, you’d have largely the same assembly quality (SPI, welting) but radically different materials for uppers, insoles, welts, etc.

Enter the worst thing evar: Bonded Leather. Stanford’s (as DavidVC experienced) as well as later miUSA blue label Florsheim’s (and a few others) used the abomination that is Bonded Leather. In short, leather particles (a la particle board) are bound, via adhesive immersion, to fabric backing, pressed with a grain pattern of some sort and then subjected to a polyurethane coating to create something that is legally leather, but not really what any sane person would consider leather. It looks initially like Correct Grain leather... but it isn’t really leather at all.

These famous shoes (profiled by an SF member years ago) are an example:

In other photos of these shoes, you can actually see the fabric backing where the “particle leather” facing has flaked off.

Here you can see DavidVC’s Stafford’s that were cross sectioned and you can actually see the material backing:

(DavidVC’s teardown on VCleat.com: https://vcleat.com/vintage-shoe-tear-down/ )

This is what I beleive is accurately defined as bookbinder leather as it was developed as a cheap leather based product for bookmakers, but was subsequently used in low-end furniture and low-quality clothing.

What this stuff isn’t is Corrected Grain, which is still actual intact leather that is buffed and heavily finished. They are two very different things; CG may start to get iffy looking, but bonded leather actually disintegrates and is complete garbage.

So, be careful with lower-end vintage offerings that may have the same workmanship quality, but were made of horrible materials.

 

[smfdoc]

You dodged a bullet. One of the big issues with mid-grade American shoes during the 80’s and 90’s, as brands and factories slid into oblivion, is their primary method of cost cutting was via material cost reduction. Due to a combination of union rules (line speed, work assignments) and standardized processes, you’d have largely the same assembly quality (SPI, welting) but radically different materials for uppers, insoles, welts, etc.

Enter the worst thing evar: Bonded Leather. Stanford’s (as DavidVC experienced) as well as later miUSA blue label Florsheim’s (and a few others) used the abomination that is Bonded Leather. In short, leather particles (a la particle board) are bound, via adhesive immersion, to fabric backing, pressed with a grain pattern of some sort and then subjected to a polyurethane coating to create something that is legally leather, but not really what any sane person would consider leather. It looks initially like Correct Grain leather... but it isn’t really leather at all.

These famous shoes (profiled by an SF member years ago) are an example:

In other photos of these shoes, you can actually see the fabric backing where the “particle leather” facing has flaked off.

Here you can see DavidVC’s Stafford’s that were cross sectioned and you can actually see the material backing:

(DavidVC’s teardown on VCleat.com: https://vcleat.com/vintage-shoe-tear-down/ )

This is what I beleive is accurately defined as bookbinder leather as it was developed as a cheap leather based product for bookmakers, but was subsequently used in low-end furniture and low-quality clothing.

What this stuff isn’t is Corrected Grain, which is still actual intact leather that is buffed and heavily finished. They are two very different things; CG may start to get iffy looking, but bonded leather actually disintegrates and is complete garbage.

So, be careful with lower-end vintage offerings that may have the same workmanship quality, but were made of horrible materials.

Thanks for the great summary. Glad that I did not pull the trigger. However, I decided to run errands in Florsheim 93602, which I know are genuine leather and not made of particle board.

 

[AEShoeMan]

My vintage fleet as of today, top row left to right:
Magina Shoes LTD shell Budapester, unknown 40's dress boots, Allen McAfee bench made, Church's
Middle row: Alden for Brooks Brothers shell short wings, Florsheim Imperial shell PTB v-cleats, Florsheim Imperial shell LWB v-cleats, Cheaney, Alden
Bottom row, Florsheim Imperial black shell PTB v-cleats, 70's era Crockett & Jones w/ commando sole, Church's

View attachment 1007457

That's a nice looking collection you have there @eazye -- keep sharing those pics!

 

[wasmisterfu]

Thanks for the great summary. Glad that I did not pull the trigger. However, I decided to run errands in Florsheim 93602, which I know are genuine leather and not made of particle board.

View attachment 1007562

Now those are some really nice Florsheim’s.

You know what else I like about Florsheim, versus Stafford? Apple’s autocorrect doesn’t attempt to change Florsheim into another word. I really like how they insist on changing Stafford to Stanford.

 

[wasmisterfu]

Oh boy... I’ve got my work cut out for me.

 

[CWOyaji]

Like @smfdoc I was going through the Bay looking for shoes to work on when I found these Sears LWB's. They're still on there at a price that qualifies for the challenge if anybody needs a pair to work on, BTW. Would be fun to have shoes that outlast the company. At the rate Sears is closing stores there's a good chance that could happen.

Then I happened upon this pair of Hanovers. These shoes were born hurt (they're stamped Factory Damaged" inside). Sadder yet, the seller speculates that: "It appears something was sitting on them and caused the leather to change shape". Ouch. They're still for sale too, at a price that qualifies, if someone wants the challenge.

But the most interesting low profile brand name discovery for me so far are these Whillock Brothers wingtips. Never heard of the brand before but they looked good, though in need of rehydration. The hieroglyphics were intriguing and they were my size.

That notation looks familiar.

What do you know, it's a pair of Alden 903's, in my size and $15 BIN. After they arrived I checked the soles and yup, they're Aldens, made for Whillock, who were a retailer in Rochester NY. Alden are still selling the 903 model for $561 at retail. http://www.aldenshoes.com/Store/DrawProducts.aspx?CategoryID=34&ParentID=3&PageID=&Action=

I cleaned them today and like the results. But because they were already in pretty good shape I'm not going to enter them in the challenge, just wear them. Now back to the Island of Misfit Toys to look for some more shoes.

 

[wasmisterfu]

Like @smfdoc I was going through the Bay looking for shoes to work on when I found these Sears LWB's. They're still on there at a price that qualifies for the challenge if anybody needs a pair to work on, BTW. Would be fun to have shoes that outlast the company. At the rate Sears is closing stores there's a good chance that could happen. View attachment 1007637
Then I happened upon this pair of Hanovers. These shoes were born hurt (they're stamped Factory Damaged" inside). What's worse, the seller speculates that: "It appears something was sitting on them and caused the leather to change shape". Ouch. They're still for sale too at a price that qualifies if someone wants the challenge. View attachment 1007640
But the most interesting low profile brand name discovery for me so far are these Whillock Brothers wingtips. Never heard of the brand before but they looked good, though in need of rehydration. The hieroglyphics were intriguing and they were in my size. View attachment 1007644
That notation looks familiar.
View attachment 1007645
Son of a gun it's a pair of Alden 903's, in my size and $15 BIN. After they arrived I checked the soles and yup, they're Aldens. They're still selling them for $561 at retail. http://www.aldenshoes.com/Store/DrawProducts.aspx?CategoryID=34&ParentID=3&PageID=&Action=
View attachment 1007646
I cleaned them today and like the results. But because they were already in pretty good shape I'm not going to enter them in the challenge, just wear them. Now back to the Island of Misfit Toys to look for some more shoes.
View attachment 1007676

Wow, those Alden’s were a terrific find!

 

[wasmisterfu]

Deleted: dupe post.