Thom Browne on Men's Wear - Interview

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by Sator

If there was one thing that Browne needs to dragged over the coals for it is this:



Why does a "designer" need a "tailor"????

Originally, the word "designer" meant the same thing as a "cutter". The cutter developed the pattern on paper. The apprenticeship to become a cutter has always been much longer than that to become an ordinary tailor. That's why the title of "designer/cutter" used to be coveted. These days you gets these people calling themselves "designers" who could not draft a pattern from scratch. Instead they draw silly doodles - something that Browne can't do, so he is forced to "describe" what he wants so that someone else can do the real work for which Browne takes the credit.

We changed gears a little bit since conceptual art made us re-think what creation was (that it can be the idea not necessarily the execution).

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by Sator

If there was one thing that Browne needs to dragged over the coals for it is this:



Why does a "designer" need a "tailor"????

Originally, the word "designer" meant the same thing as a "cutter". The cutter developed the pattern on paper. The apprenticeship to become a cutter has always been much longer than that to become an ordinary tailor. That's why the title of "designer/cutter" used to be coveted. These days you gets these people calling themselves "designers" who could not draft a pattern from scratch. Instead they draw silly doodles - something that Browne can't do, so he is forced to "describe" what he wants so that someone else can do the real work for which Browne takes the credit.

This.

I've 'doodled' with sartorial designs utilizing AutoCAD... and whilst I'm far, far, far away from being a tailor or a cutter, I am apparently more of a 'designer' than Thom Browne.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

We changed gears a little bit since conceptual art made us re-think what creation was (that it can be the idea not necessarily the execution).

I'm sure that explanation will go over really great to his corporate backers if the company starts to lose money.

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

I'm sure that explanation will go over really great to his corporate backers if the company starts to lose money.
This has nothing to do with what I explained. A designer trained in classical cutting and fashion illustration (say YSL) could have the exact same problems with his backers if his company lost money. Well in the case of YSL the context was different, backers weren't as quick to ask for profitability as they are now and fashion wasn't as big an industry anyway.

 

[Sator]

Next thing they'll have cuisine designers who can't cook but take all the credit for being the culinary genius.

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by Sator

Next thing they'll have cuisine designers who can't cook but take all the credit for being the culinary genius.

So?

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

This has nothing to do with what I explained. A designer trained in classical cutting (say YSL) could have the exact same problems with his backers if his company lost money. Well in the case of YSL the context was different, backers weren't as quick to ask for profitability as they are now and fashion wasn't as big an industry anyway.

My point was that whilst I understand what you are saying, in the real world that explanation wouldn't fly in case the books end in red.

Also, when YSL fashion was already a full-fledge business. Granted, not as far flung in scope and size as the conglomerated powerhouses such as Richemont, LVMH, PPR, Prada Group, etc... but still a business with financial expectations nonetheless.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by Sator

Next thing they'll have cuisine designers who can't cook but take all the credit for being the culinary genius.

Manton would love that.

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

I dont think very much of TB's clothing sells at full retail.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba

I dont think very much of TB's clothing sells at full retail.

That could be said of most items. Save, of course for items that never go on sale: Hermes bags, LV items, etc...

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

My point was that whilst I understand what you are saying, in the real world that explanation wouldn't fly in case the books end in red.

Also, when YSL fashion was already a full-fledge business. Granted, not as far flung in scope and size as the conglomerated powerhouses such as Richemont, LVMH, PPR, Prada Group, etc... but still a business with financial expectations nonetheless.

I don't see a relationship with cutting and how a designer is held responsible by the backer when/if the company goes in the red, I guess you will just have to elaborate.

Fashion overall was a very small business and mostly populated by bohemians during YSL's most creative period. The expectations were waaaay different.

 

[amplifiedheat]

Originally Posted by Fuuma

hahaha, look at the tailoring purists unable to understand someone might want to break tailoring rules.
I understand why--it's a combination of greed and bad taste. Greed because he knows that gaudy designs grab attention and make fast money. Bad taste because he doesn't have a problem with that. I have to agree with Sator. I have limited respect for people who try to change a field without learning about it first. (http://xkcd.com/675/)

Originally Posted by Fuuma

We changed gears a little bit since conceptual art made us re-think what creation was (that it can be the idea not necessarily the execution).
Yes, but the best conceptual art has generally been from those who have first studied and practiced the execution. Moreover, conceptual art has little relevance when it comes to clothing. Clothing is all execution. If I see a man on the street with trousers that show three inches of sock, I don't think, "Ah, clearly citing a Milano-American influence." I think "He looks like an idiot."

Originally Posted by WhateverYouLike

And considering how much you've thought about what proper pant length is, I'd say he's achieved his aim.
Whether or not it's an effective strategy is hardly the point. The way he dresses looks bad.

Originally Posted by WhateverYouLike

I do agree with you on the pulling. But I think TB's suit is tailored well there, just with no excess cloth so movement automatically causes pulling. But who cares? movement will always cause a suit to crease.
Clothing demands excess cloth. If your waist snugly measures 32 inches around in the morning, and you put a 32 inch band of wool around it, you will be terrifically uncomfortable after dinner. We may haggle over the right allowance, but it's more than zero. Some degree of pulling is a part of movement, but if you can't move your arm without canyons opening, the jacket's too small. Consider the Prince of Wales, who, even in this very closely tailored suit, can play freaking soccer with less pulling than Mr. Browne:

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by amplifiedheat

I understand why--it's a combination of greed and bad taste. Greed because he knows that gaudy designs grab attention and make fast money. Bad taste because he doesn't have a problem with that. Yes, but the best conceptual art has generally been from those who have first studied and practiced the execution. Moreover, conceptual art has little relevance when it comes to clothing. Clothing is all execution. If I see a man on the street with trousers that show three inches of sock, I don't think, "Ah, clearly citing a Milano-American influence." I think "He looks like an idiot."
1) Unrelated but I don't give a flying **** about the prince of Whales and I don't think he looked even remotely interesting. 2) Conceptual art vs clothing: why would I (and many others) need to share your perception of what makes nice clothes and what appeals to us? It's great you like traditional bespoke but I (mostly) don't, I want people who make suits to play with the rules of making suits and that's what I get with TB, albeit on a superficial level. Someone like Carol Christian Poell has a much more interesting process, altering the structure and materials as much as he plays with cosmetic elements, something that TB fails to do. 3) As for taste well it's easy to claim to possess it when you go with elements that have been canon for quite a long time but that's sincerely nothing to be impressed by; even some random person in the streets probably knows that Picasso is a great painter.

 

[OttoSkadelig]

to be honest, i think the PoW's suit has as much pulling as the TB examples posted earlier -- the the pulling appears different, more fluid, but i suspect this has more to do with the canvassing and materials. also, note that his button point is no less high than TB's...

i do agree that TB's pants look idiotic, but it is almost passe to make this observation and i feel like i am stating a cliche. he is clearly doing it to suggest a paradigm shift and to be provocative, not to literally encourage the rest of the world to wear them. so you could both say "the fit is terrible" and "the notion of fit doesn't even apply here", and both statements would be correct...

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

The POW's badass, but I've played a pickup game of Kick ball in a full suit and tie (black label) when i taught a class of 2nd graders.

The kids thought it was awesome and the full time staff thought I might be completely out of my mind.

Had an interview that day and was subbing while looking for a new job. I looked nice and disheveled for the interview.