The WAYWT Discussion Thread

[shootspeed]



also, shootspeed looking like asian melojello - your stacks are way way too much, man

haha, i actually kinda like the crazy stacking but i'll probably look back on it later and hate it.

 

[wurm]



Regarding the terms we use to describe the appeals of various aesthetics, they will inevitably become clichés. There's nothing wrong with using them (which is why I wouldn't go as far as to say that I "hate" them); it's only when they are thrown around without qualification, when they're used so indiscriminately, that they lose even the pretension to intelligently and accurately describe. This might seem pretty unilluminating, but the point is that #menswear descriptors—like "casual," "timeless," "classy"—only sound stupid when they're used stupidly. Same applies for the words we throw around here. If they're going to be used, then it really helps to attempt to unpack what inspires the use of such words, otherwise they're just empty signifiers.
As far as "feeling one's aesthetics preferences are better than others,'" that's an inevitable consequence of taste. I'm not trying to eliminate a natural human response; that's a pointless and thoughtless project. But, as you yourself have said, we shouldn't be dicks about it. That's all really. I said that "the air of superiority" is what bothers me. I can't police another person's head, or my own for that matter. But speaking what's in one's head without a filter because one believes his/her taste is inherently valuable (they're not; they're just as contingent on the calendar year as they are contingent on where you live) bespeaks a particularly disturbing level of narcissism, and reasonably speaking no one is going to put up with that. I hope that clears my original post up a bit more.

I'd say the word "timeless" gets a lot of flak because it's so wrong and shortsighted. It's like reaching back to the 1950's as the extent of the history of fashion. As users here are aware, no garment or style has had a very long life. I don't really mind "casual," and I agree that both it, "classy" and others can be compared to words we use here.

Anyway (referring to the second bolded part), the way I look at it, when I walk around in public I'm demonstrating a degree of superiority regarding my sartorial choices. It shouldn't affect my attitude toward others but essentially I'm making an open statement that 'this is better than that.' At this point I might be boiling it down to a matter of personal definition. I think we're on the same page.

 

[diniro]

gotta cosign wurm. I didn't want to say anything but those shoes has never worked for you itasi. dirty or not.

 

[CDHagg]

Party steeze (****, is that even a word?)





Burberry
gold necklace/medal
Zara
N&F Skinny Guy
Charles David

EDIT: @Benesyed yeah the jacket is a down-filled puffer. It was 30 degrees Fahrenheit outside. Jacket came off once I got inside.

 

[johanm]



I really think these sneakers hurt pretty much all of your fits. This is actually one of the times I find it to least be the case, but still. I know people here thought they were awesome last FW? (spring?) but I just don't think they look good. The slim shape of the shoe, mixed with the crazy lacing the whole way up (would be a bit better if only at the top) gives them an awkward appearance. It's a shame because I've really liked a lot of your looks otherwise. It doesn't help that they still look pristine and blindingly white.

Not a fan of the KVAs usually but feel they work very well with istasi's fits. They keep the silhouette coherently sleek whereas the "awkward" exaggerated lacing on top of the slim sole, like the ginger hair on the greyscale palette, provide just the right dose of dissonance to make the look interesting and distinctive. Dunks or MMMs would be a step backward IMO.

 

[Benesyed]



Party steeze (****, is that even a word?)

EDIT: @Benesyed yeah the jacket is a down-filled puffer.  It was 30 degrees Fahrenheit outside.  Jacket came off once I got inside.

Ya I went out with a t and my brato leather, was ok till the sun went down. Never again. Not freezing > lookin sexay :foo:

 

[brad-t]

I really wish I'd bought the crazy lace KVA when they were super cheap. Damn.

 

[oboy_oboy]



It's my mistake that I wasn't more clear: my post wasn't intended to "call out" lemmywinks; his remark just seemed to recall elements of this forum's oft-repeated, off-the-cuff dismissals of an entire aesthetic, without necessarily being explicit about it. Of course, that might not have been his intent, just as it wasn't my intent to call him out. In any case, I read that post and thought it would be worthwhile to explain something that has bothered me for a long time whenever SF gets to talking about #menswear stuff.

Spoiler: More spoiler'd ramblings

Regarding the terms we use to describe the appeals of various aesthetics, they will inevitably become clichés. There's nothing wrong with using them (which is why I wouldn't go as far as to say that I "hate" them); it's only when they are thrown around without qualification, when they're used so indiscriminately, that they lose even the pretension to intelligently and accurately describe. This might seem pretty unilluminating, but the point is that #menswear descriptors—like "casual," "timeless," "classy"—only sound stupid when they're used stupidly. Same applies for the words we throw around here. If they're going to be used, then it really helps to attempt to unpack what inspires the use of such words, otherwise they're just empty signifiers.
As far as "feeling one's aesthetics preferences are better than others,'" that's an inevitable consequence of taste. I'm not trying to eliminate a natural human response; that's a pointless and thoughtless project. But, as you yourself have said, we shouldn't be dicks about it. That's all really. I said that "the air of superiority" is what bothers me. I can't police another person's head, or my own for that matter. But speaking what's in one's head without a filter because one believes his/her taste is inherently valuable (they're not; they're just as contingent on the calendar year as they are contingent on where you live) bespeaks a particularly disturbing level of narcissism, and reasonably speaking no one is going to put up with that. I hope that clears my original post up a bit more.

If anyone ever asks me why I hang out on SF I'm giving them this exchange. If they don't like it--irrespective of content-- we probably can't be friends.

I like #menswear, the way I like certain foods. Not essential to my happiness, but an enjoyable addition.

 

[dfagdfsh]

thewho13 you seem like a smart and nice guy but you need to drop the academic english major schtick. it makes reading your thoughtful posts unbearable - the mark of a gifted writer (and a gifted intellectual) is the ability to convey ideas simply though easy to understand language, not the ability to get lost within the convolutions of your own jargon and endless qualifications.

also if you're really torn up about subjectivity you need to read some Nietzsche. while clothing is subjective in an absolute sense, it's not subjective within the confines of this website -- we, as a community, have come together to create a standard aesthetic and, through our acceptance and rejection of different outfits and posters, perpetuate this aesthetic.

 

[CDHagg]

If anyone ever asks me why I hang out on SF...

You actually tell people that you hang out on Style Forum?

 

[oboy_oboy]

Purely hypothetically speaking of course. No one knows. No. One.

 

[dfagdfsh]

I sold some shoes I had listed to someone in person the other day, and we met in my department's graduate lounge. after he left everyone looked at me like I was crazy. if only they knew..

 

[in stitches]

wait, so teger, by his own admission, in not a gifted writer?

 

[in stitches]



You actually tell people that you hang out on Style Forum?

you dont? srsly, thats even worse.

 

[Benesyed]



thewho13 you seem like a smart and nice guy but you need to drop the academic english major schtick. it makes reading your thoughtful posts unbearable - the mark of a gifted writer (and a gifted intellectual) is the ability to convey ideas simply though easy to understand language, not the ability to get lost within the convolutions of your own jargon and endless qualifications.
also if you're really torn up about subjectivity you need to read some Nietzsche. while clothing is subjective in an absolute sense, it's not subjective within the confines of this website -- we, as a community, have come together to create a standard aesthetic and, through our acceptance and rejection of different outfits and posters, perpetuate this aesthetic.

"So in simpler english, you say we have rules here so you should follow them. I reply, your rules are just your rules because you want to insist they are, which doesn't make then any more right because there are more than one of you insisting on its value as true/objective." - That would be the reasoning along which why saying community would not really deal with thewhos objection.

Wordier nietzsche referencing answer below

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Nietzsche is read pretty subjectively. I doubt if thewho will find anything in there that will really change his perspective. You could argue that the communal creation of ethical norms is the nature of standard formation and so within that community you are bound to it and it has some sort of proscriptive value. Or that Nietzsche's analysis is actually just descriptive and that while there is no real metaphysical force to the ethical norm the community acts that way. The community, much like anything/one else that calls upon metaphysical justifications, is without any ground to stand on but has its methods to create some sort of illusion of justification (force or some absolute like God)

And this is without speaking to the idea that "community" is a weak philosophical concept. I dont like to reference nozick but he has a point. There is no community monster that holds a collective consensus, just individuals who at time (and not unanimously) agree to certain things