The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[ValidusLA]

I thought it was wild too! But sure enough if you look online, Purple Label's MTM tuxedos are fully canvassed, but the RTW ones are half-canvassed. I'm not sure how/if their other materials, craftsmanship, etc. justify the price; I'm also seeing conflicting reports about how much of a difference half-canvas vs. full-canvas makes in suits at this level.

You're in LA?
Forget the RLPL.
I would call Divij Hemraijani in Costa Mesa today and ask if there is a way to get it done before June.
Might be tight w/ his timeframes.

I did a 4x1 bespoke Harrison's Barathea w/ him last year for less that $3,500.

 

[St1X]

I thought it was wild too! But sure enough if you look online, Purple Label's MTM tuxedos are fully canvassed, but the RTW ones are half-canvassed. I'm not sure how/if their other materials, craftsmanship, etc. justify the price; I'm also seeing conflicting reports about how much of a difference half-canvas vs. full-canvas makes in suits at this level.

Half canvased is usually pretty bad. It is fine on a jacket for a few hundred bucks where the maker has to cut corners as much as possible in order to provide good fabrics. For example check Suitsupply.
Usually you'll find a comparison between fused and canvased jackets online. And they will tell you that canvased option is much better and you'll be getting a phenomenal garment from them in a half canvas construction. Again, Suitsupply does this.
What they don't tell you is that half canvas is usually both fused and canvased. So you'll get that nice lapel roll from a half canvas, but it also comes with all the negatives of fused construction.
Fusing is used to improve fabrics drape on a lower part where there is no canvas. It is not needed on a heavier fabric, though. But since we talk about a tuxedo here, half canvased one will come with a fusing.
P.S. I love Suitsupply

 

[Sneaky Pete]

Seeing the tailor tomorrow for a DJ. I was torn between peak and shawl but I just don’t love peak. I tried on my wedding suit after it was altered and I remembered how much I liked it and how well made it seemed (to me at least, no doubt those with a more trained eye would find fault!), and that if my DJ was of a similar quality then I’d be very happy with it too.

 

[dorgv94]

You're in LA?
Forget the RLPL.
I would call Divij Hemraijani in Costa Mesa today and ask if there is a way to get it done before June.
Might be tight w/ his timeframes.

I did a 4x1 bespoke Harrison's Barathea w/ him last year for less that $3,500.

I've seen a lot of love around this site for Divij's work! I hadn't really considered bespoke as an option - what would you say are some advantages to going bespoke for a black tux? I love the idea of a truly unique fit, but since the differences between black tuxes tend to be in the minute details, and my measurements aren't particularly out-of-the-box, I'm curious as to what makes bespoke stand apart in this context.

 

[DorianGreen]

A seldom seen reverse black tie combination.

 

[ericgereghty]

Half canvased is usually pretty bad. It is fine on a jacket for a few hundred bucks where the maker has to cut corners as much as possible in order to provide good fabrics. For example check Suitsupply.
Usually you'll find a comparison between fused and canvased jackets online. And they will tell you that canvased option is much better and you'll be getting a phenomenal garment from them in a half canvas construction. Again, Suitsupply does this.
What they don't tell you is that half canvas is usually both fused and canvased. So you'll get that nice lapel roll from a half canvas, but it also comes with all the negatives of fused construction.
Fusing is used to improve fabrics drape on a lower part where there is no canvas. It is not needed on a heavier fabric, though. But since we talk about a tuxedo here, half canvased one will come with a fusing.
P.S. I love Suitsupply

I don't agree that it's bad, per se. Worse than FC, sure, and absolutely no business being on a suit that expensive, but not BAD.

I've seen a lot of love around this site for Divij's work! I hadn't really considered bespoke as an option - what would you say are some advantages to going bespoke for a black tux? I love the idea of a truly unique fit, but since the differences between black tuxes tend to be in the minute details, and my measurements aren't particularly out-of-the-box, I'm curious as to what makes bespoke stand apart in this context.

Fit/getting exactly what you want. If you're an easy fit within the bounds of tailoring, and can stomach the RL pricing, give the Armoury a look.

Also worth looking at Anglo-Italian. They have a good array of sizes available. I really dig their aesthetic...and dramatically cheaper than RL/Armoury

 

[dorgv94]

I don't agree that it's bad, per se. Worse than FC, sure, and absolutely no business being on a suit that expensive, but not BAD.

Fit/getting exactly what you want. If you're an easy fit within the bounds of tailoring, and can stomach the RL pricing, give the Armoury a look.

Also worth looking at Anglo-Italian. They have a good array of sizes available. I really dig their aesthetic...and dramatically cheaper than RL/Armoury

I mean, the selection at The Armoury is pretty mouth-watering. But what are the best ways to interact with either of these brands in LA? I couldn't find anything about upcoming trunk shows on the Anglo-Italian site, and stock is dwindling for the Armoury's 101 and Model 4. I'd be a bit squeamish about ordering any of these off the rack tuxedos online and hoping for the best without the opportunity to feel them/try them on.

 

[dorgv94]

I don't agree that it's bad, per se. Worse than FC, sure, and absolutely no business being on a suit that expensive, but not BAD.

Also, one more thought on this: Then what is it that makes the RLPL tuxedos so special? I know the legend goes that they're the only ones that St. Andrew's sell that specific wool fabric to in the U.S. But I've heard a some good buzz about their suiting within the fashion world, not to mention the suits just feel great on! What's the secret sauce? How are they able to get away with that price tag and half-canvas construction?

 

[Andy57]

What's the secret sauce? How are they able to get away with that price tag and half-canvas construction?

Two words: Ralph and Lauren.

 

[St1X]

I don't agree that it's bad, per se. Worse than FC, sure, and absolutely no business being on a suit that expensive, but not BAD.

You might disagree with me on half canvas being bad. But do you agree that fused is bad? I bet you do.
Well... Half canvas is also fused! Unless it is a heavy winter fabric

 

[ericgereghty]

As mentioned, worse than ideal is not BAD. Unless you're using your tailoring trekking through insanely humid jungles, you're unlikely to notice dramatic differences (marginal ones, no doubt) in the wear/tear and long term viability of the garment.

As with most things, truth lies in the grey area between extremes.

 

[ValidusLA]

I've seen a lot of love around this site for Divij's work! I hadn't really considered bespoke as an option - what would you say are some advantages to going bespoke for a black tux? I love the idea of a truly unique fit, but since the differences between black tuxes tend to be in the minute details, and my measurements aren't particularly out-of-the-box, I'm curious as to what makes bespoke stand apart in this context.

So from this point of view, if all black tuxes are mostly the same and you're an easy fit, why even consider anything like RLPL (which is priced for its label not its quality)?

Great fit is one thing. What about lapel? Want more belly? Want less?
Maybe you want a particular lapel with a particular facing.
Maybe you want a Peak, grossgrain, 4x1 DB or something else unlikely to be OTR.

If you want to buy OTR I heavily suggest looking at the Armoury or Spier and Mackay.

 

[upr_crust]

From the department of "lifestyle photographs", a small selection of candid shots from last night's 100th anniversary of the Morgan Library dinner. Please enjoy.

Spoiler

 

[jeremygo]

Anyone have advice on cummerbund width? Likely ordering through Sam Hober and the options as listed are Classic (6") and Slim (5.5") although I'm sure he could do other widths as requested.

 

[The Dirty Pigeon]

Anyone have advice on cummerbund width? Likely ordering through Sam Hober and the options as listed are Classic (6") and Slim (5.5") although I'm sure he could do other widths as requested.

I think it depends on your height and proportions. If you’re taller than 5’8”, and average build, I’d suggest nothing less than 6”.

I’m 5’5” and ordered a 5 5/8” width from Hober. It’s always weird to see larger men with little cummerbunds—it just looks like a sash type belt.