The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[sftiger]

Haven't tried them yet, though it's on my radar. I find their lapels a bit wide for my taste (4 1/2 inches I think) but overall they might be a good option for me.

It's not easy having bespoke taste on a musician's salary.

I'd try one on. I actually prefer the slightly larger lapel and think the SuSu tux looks good on my friends that own one, although I don't own one myself.

Also - if you have the patience (and lack of urgency) you can be patient and buy off eBay. I cycled through several tuxes from eBay over a 6 month period - returned one (clarified with the seller beforehand that this was a possibility and paid the shipping both ways), sold one at a substantial gain (totally accidental, but was nice!), and finally found one that was perfect actually on Styleforum B&S, which I wore for my weddin. Net, I think it cost me ~$200 + alterations (although many hours of my own time). But I did this over a 6 month period.

 

[Canadianguy]

I'd try one on. I actually prefer the slightly larger lapel and think the SuSu tux looks good on my friends that own one, although I don't own one myself.

Also - if you have the patience (and lack of urgency) you can be patient and buy off eBay. I cycled through several tuxes from eBay over a 6 month period - returned one (clarified with the seller beforehand that this was a possibility and paid the shipping both ways), sold one at a substantial gain (totally accidental, but was nice!), and finally found one that was perfect actually on Styleforum B&S, which I wore for my weddin. Net, I think it cost me ~$200 + alterations (although many hours of my own time). But I did this over a 6 month period.

Thanks for the suggestions. I decided to go bespoke because with two strikeouts so far, I feel it's the only way to get what I want.

So hopefully I'll have something pretty decent to show you guys in a few months time.

 

[RoseGardener]

Question for folks from UK:

1. How often do lower middle income men get to use black or white ties? Not high society but everyday people.
2. What other occasions, other than the wedding, balls, opera/symphonies, would call for formal stuff in UK?

Background - my kid went to UK for college, which hosted annual white tie ball, regular black tie dinners, and even more parties. After graduation, effort was made to return for the annual white tie event. That led me to believe that formal wears are more common in your country with more opportunities to wear them?

 

[Oshare]

After spending a lot of time reading through older messages in this thread, I'm slowly coming around to the idea of getting a pair of patent leather shoes for formal events.

Could I please get opinions on this style of shoe? Appropriate or not?

 

[ericgereghty]

Appropriate. Kind of ugly, but appropriate.

 

[Oshare]

Appropriate. Kind of ugly, but appropriate.

Haha. Agreed. Not the most elegant of shoe.

That photo isn't particularly flattering, but the shape itself is not horrible. I'm on the fence about the band of fabric across the upper, but thought it was reminiscent of a grosgrain bow on opera pumps and therefore perhaps(?) not bad.

 

[Caustic Man]

Opera pumps or patent leather oxfords. Velvet shoes if you're brave enough. I don't know what those shoes are supposed to be, but they're hideous.

 

[Oshare]

Two strikes. I'm sufficiently deterred.
Thanks for saving me from doing something foolish. I will stick to oxfords which is what I know and like anyway.

 

[Andy57]

Two strikes. I'm sufficiently deterred.
Thanks for saving me from doing something foolish. I will stick to oxfords which is what I know and like anyway.

I think that's a wise decision.

 

[Oshare]

I opted for a pair of Brooks Brothers patent leather plain toe oxfords instead of the weird Florsheim loafers pictured earlier. Disaster averted.


I have a new question about waistcoats and would really appreciate advice again.

Would this waistcoat with a shawl style lapels match the dinner jacket below? (I would probably replace the buttons with satin covered buttons)

Or would a waistcoat without lapels be better?

A dinner jacket I have on the way from the UK is a vintage Ermenegildo Zegna midnight blue jacket with peak lapels.

 

[Faux Brummell]

The waistcoat with the shawl collar would be the correct style for black tie, the one without lapels looks too high cut. But the wool would need to be midnight blue to match the rest of the outfit.

I opted for a pair of Brooks Brothers patent leather plain toe oxfords instead of the weird Florsheim loafers pictured earlier. Disaster averted.


I have a new question about waistcoats and would really appreciate advice again.

Would this waistcoat with a shawl style lapels match the dinner jacket below? (I would probably replace the buttons with satin covered buttons)

Or would a waistcoat without lapels be better?

A dinner jacket I have on the way from the UK is a vintage Ermenegildo Zegna midnight blue jacket with peak lapels.

 

[Andy57]

I opted for a pair of Brooks Brothers patent leather plain toe oxfords instead of the weird Florsheim loafers pictured earlier. Disaster averted.

A dinner jacket I have on the way from the UK is a vintage Ermenegildo Zegna midnight blue jacket with peak lapels.

I think you'll be happy with the Brooks shoes. I have the same ones and have found them both comfortable and presentable. The Zegna DJ looks very nice indeed. I think the advice to go midnight blue is sound. A black waistcoat would not look right...unless (and I'm in a small minority here) you also plan to wear black trousers. Then you might be able to make it work. A better option altogether is to go with, say, a white faille waistcoat.

 

[Quesjac]

Question for folks from UK:

1. How often do lower middle income men get to use black or white ties? Not high society but everyday people.
2. What other occasions, other than the wedding, balls, opera/symphonies, would call for formal stuff in UK?

Background - my kid went to UK for college, which hosted annual white tie ball, regular black tie dinners, and even more parties. After graduation, effort was made to return for the annual white tie event. That led me to believe that formal wears are more common in your country with more opportunities to wear them?

I can't speak for everyone in the UK, but some general observations:

1. No black tie at weddings I've ever encountered. (I don't think black tie looks good in the daytime so to me this is a good thing.) If people want to be more dressed up they wear morning dress.
2. Black tie (and yes, white tie) persist in certain professional organisations, and yes some educational institutions as you say (not 'college' here btw). Black tie is not common in concerts / opera on the whole. Award ceremonies often require it though.
3. General comment: like class in the UK in general, I don't think it's so much about income but tradition --- if you get involved in a conservative profession you may well end up needing black tie quite frequently, but it's not like everyone of a certain income level is very traditional.

 

[RoseGardener]

I can't speak for everyone in the UK, but some general observations:

1. No black tie at weddings I've ever encountered. (I don't think black tie looks good in the daytime so to me this is a good thing.) If people want to be more dressed up they wear morning dress.
2. Black tie (and yes, white tie) persist in certain professional organisations, and yes some educational institutions as you say (not 'college' here btw). Black tie is not common in concerts / opera on the whole. Award ceremonies often require it though.
3. General comment: like class in the UK in general, I don't think it's so much about income but tradition --- if you get involved in a conservative profession you may well end up needing black tie quite frequently, but it's not like everyone of a certain income level is very traditional.

Thanks Quesjac. it seems like I was under the wrong assumption that was influenced firstly by of my kid's experience and also availability of tux on ebay UK.

 

[Anubis]

I can't speak for everyone in the UK, but some general observations:

1. No black tie at weddings I've ever encountered. (I don't think black tie looks good in the daytime so to me this is a good thing.) If people want to be more dressed up they wear morning dress.
2. Black tie (and yes, white tie) persist in certain professional organisations, and yes some educational institutions as you say (not 'college' here btw). Black tie is not common in concerts / opera on the whole. Award ceremonies often require it though.
3. General comment: like class in the UK in general, I don't think it's so much about income but tradition --- if you get involved in a conservative profession you may well end up needing black tie quite frequently, but it's not like everyone of a certain income level is very traditional.

Having served in the Armed Forces, and now working with them, I wear black tie fairly frequently. I remain a member of an Officers' Mess, but find that younger officers prefer informal functions more. That said (and as the Mess is joint service) traditional functions such as the Battle of Britain dinner and Trafalgar Night are always well attended. Black tie, as worn by the military, is very much of the traditional variety - ready-tied bow ties are a solecism, for example, and likely to result in the wearer buying port for the whole Mess - though ties of Service or club colours are acceptable for dining-in nights, which are informal formal events. There is also considerable latitude in the area of cummerbunds worn by the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force. Ship or squadron crests feature, or stripes of unit or Service colours. They can be worn with Mess dress, or black tie.

Next month I am going to an awards ceremony, and if it's anything like last year there will be many appalling examples of dress on display. Still, it starts with a champagne reception, so I can dull the pain. I just need to control the temptation to ask someone with a hideously coloured ready-tied bow tie if it lights up, spins around or squirts water.