The Look goes on...

[Parker]

What makes "The Look" appealing to me is the use of solids and understated materials. Having owned lots of vintage 60s thrift stuff, I can attest to a certain flatness to the colors and dullness of fabrics that was part of the overall appeal. these things also added to the uniformity that was to me essential to the power of the Ivy (or whatever adjective you prefer) Look.

I understand that this thread is about how that original stuff has evolved, but I kind of agree with @chinesealpha ... when you start referencing (admittedly nice) modern Italian stuff -- fancy socks, ties and shoes -- the original appeal of The Look somehow gets lost in translation.

 

[cerneabbas]

What makes "The Look" appealing to me is the use of solids and understated materials. Having owned lots of vintage 60s thrift stuff, I can attest to a certain flatness to the colors and dullness of fabrics that was part of the overall appeal. these things also added to the uniformity that was to me essential to the power of the Ivy (or whatever adjective you prefer) Look.

I understand that this thread is about how that original stuff has evolved, but I kind of agree with @chinesealpha ... when you start referencing (admittedly nice) modern Italian stuff -- fancy socks, ties and shoes -- the original appeal of The Look somehow gets lost in translation.

I agree wih you about the Milanese look,as I said to me its overdone.
I am perhaps a bit dull in my clothes,I only like one bright colour at a time maybe socks or shirt,and I don't mix checks and stripes,so the Milanese look is too much for me,I prefer a simpler look with as you say understated materials ( some of the shoes are nice though ).

 

[Mr Knightley]

What makes "The Look" appealing to me is the use of solids and understated materials. Having owned lots of vintage 60s thrift stuff, I can attest to a certain flatness to the colors and dullness of fabrics that was part of the overall appeal. these things also added to the uniformity that was to me essential to the power of the Ivy (or whatever adjective you prefer) Look.

I understand that this thread is about how that original stuff has evolved, but I kind of agree with @chinesealpha ... when you start referencing (admittedly nice) modern Italian stuff -- fancy socks, ties and shoes -- the original appeal of The Look somehow gets lost in translation.

I agree with most of this and I guess the Milanese excursion was a little off track here. Or was it? Over on Mod to Suedehead one former suedehead argued recently that the look coming from Lino and his chums is taking things in a more (to him) acceptable direction than that which is offered by J Simons. He saw the Milanese approach as being a more modern take on The Look rather than the backward looking / unchanging styles coming from JS.

I have some sympathy with that view - as long as it is done in an understated way. A quick look at the Sartorialist will reveal many of those old standards we hold dear still alive and well on the streets of Italy. Lino's personal look is, I agree OTT to those of us living in these damp islands!

Going back to Chinese alpha's point which is well made, I would nevertheless ask whether the fishtail parka would ever have been considered by self-respecting Original Modernists as part of their look. Surely it was adopted by the next generation when things were starting to fall apart.

 

[Mr Knightley]

Thanks! Definitely ex-skinhead but still noticeable and more so lately. Was a little skinhead around 1970 but just a fashion then back into it as a style in the early 80s. Lots I can think of to discuss here such as where the 2 Tone 'rudeboy' fits into all of this, why 80s skinhead had street but no dress clothing, the (much maligned elsewhere!) 80s skinhead t shirt/sweatshirt layer as ivy, etc.

I should be interested to learn more about the 80s skinhead and why he / she had no dress clothing.

 

[covskin]



I should be interested to learn more about the 80s skinhead and why he / she had no dress clothing.

Three reasons come to mind.

First, as I touched on earlier, the sudden loss of entry-level manufacturing jobs meant 16 year olds had not as much to spend as before due to unemployment or continuing education. Street clothing is essential if you want the world to see you 'belong'. Dress clothing is less useful and comes with a significant overhead in using it.

Second, the 2 Tone 'rudeboy' look had appropriated much of the concept we might call 'skinhead dress clothing' and pretty much trashed it on the altar of fashion (also happened with the harrington, very 2 Tone 'rudeboy' but not much seen on subsequent 80s skinheads).

Third, 80s clothing for going out generally looked shocking, very Man at C&A. Who wanted to blend into that mess.

(Fourth, me and my mates were pretty much barred from everywhere).

Just my thoughts.

 

[cerneabbas]

Three reasons come to mind.

First, as I touched on earlier, the sudden loss of entry-level manufacturing jobs meant 16 year olds had not as much to spend as before due to unemployment or continuing education. Street clothing is essential if you want the world to see you 'belong'. Dress clothing is less useful and comes with a significant overhead.

Second, the 2 Tone 'rudeboy' look had appropriated much of the concept we might call 'skinhead dress clothing' and pretty much trashed it on the altar of fashion (also happened with the harrington, very 2 Tone 'rudeboy' but not much seen on subsequent 80s skinheads).

Third, 80s clothing for going out generally looked shocking, very Man at C&A. Who wanted to blend into that mess.

(Fourth, me and my mates were pretty much barred from everywhere).

Just my thoughts.

Maybe as well if they went to places that played punk or oi music there probably wouldn't have been a dress code so they didn't need to dress smartly.
I was thinking about your other post where you make distinction between two tone rude boys and skinheads,no doubt that you are correct and that some of us in a lazy way just group it all under the "revival " heading.
On the other thread it has been said that there were several waves to the skinhead revival,and I think that is true as well.

 

[covskin]



Maybe as well if they went to places that played punk or oi music there probably wouldn't have been a dress code so they didn't need to dress smartly.
I was thinking about your other post where you make distinction between two tone rude boys and skinheads,no doubt that you are correct and that some of us in a lazy way just group it all under the "revival " heading.
On the other thread it has been said that there were several waves to the skinhead revival,and I think that is true as well.

In hindsight the 2 Tone 'rudeboy' was a bit of a spoiler on 'skinhead'. Skinheads had to set themselves apart from that. I view my 'rudeboy' phase as pre-skinhead really though I expect most would not see it even in those terms, just an ephemeral copy and paste fashion.

 

[covskin]

^ I will just add here that I put rudeboy in inverted commas because the word has had different meanings over time with no real connection between them. Skinhead I put in inverted commas because I don't pretend to be an authority on what skinhead is.

 

[cerneabbas]

In hindsight the 2 Tone 'rudeboy' was a bit of a spoiler on 'skinhead'. Skinheads had to set themselves apart from that. I view my 'rudeboy' phase as pre-skinhead really though I expect most would not see it even in those terms, just an ephemeral copy and paste fashion.

I agree,but maybe the 2 Tone "rudeboys" used that name to distance themselves from early revival skinheads ? (from 77 on ,around Sham 69 etc ).
On the other thread there have been comments made about later skinhead girls not dressing or looking as feminine as the "original" girls,in a general way I would go along with that view,why did the later girls have a "harder" look ?.

 

[cerneabbas]

Shirt collars. I don't always wear button down collars and when I do I prefer a slightly smaller collar than I would have worn in 70 / 71.
I will buy a shirt that I like with a non BD collar,this week I have had a catalogue through the post from Brook Taverner,there is a nice looking pale blue herring bone shirt with non BD collar,I don't remember seeing herring bone shirts before has anybody else here got one or seen one ?.

 

[covskin]



I agree,but maybe the 2 Tone "rudeboys" used that name to distance themselves from early revival skinheads ? (from 77 on ,around Sham 69 etc ).
On the other thread there have been comments made about later skinhead girls not dressing or looking as feminine as the "original" girls,in a general way I would go along with that view,why did the later girls have a "harder" look ?.

On the first point I remember the politicised tit Jerry Dammers recently going on about how he created 2 Tone in opposition to Sham blah blah...so maybe some truth in my spoiler theory.

On the second point, well frankly I dispute that 80s girls were less feminine! I think the slightly frumpy 60s look and the more striking 80s look reflect a general change in young womens behavior. More assertive yes, but not losing their femininity. Heightened even - rude, native and dangerous (but now I am getting carried away!).

 

[cerneabbas]

I suppose that we all see things from a different perspective and we are generalising,I thought that the original girls in suits looked smart ,feminine because the suit had a skirt but not in a "soft" girly way,I agree that the mohair dresses and some of the shoes looked frumpy IMO.
Some of the 80s girls did look tomboyish but some in Doc Marten boots and an oversized flight jacket worn over a denim jacket or cardigan looked more scruffy or rough again IMO.
Sta prest worn by a lot of girls from either time don't do most girls any favours especially seen from behind,also IMO.
Some of the original girls also wore blouses and womens cardigans that gave them a softer look than I remember the later girls having.
I suppose that some of this is down to how old we were at the time,we are all probably going to remember that girls were more attractive ( to us ) at which ever time was "ours".

 

[covskin]

^ We agree. Sexiness is a skinhead girl.

 

[Chanklebury]

Thanks Cov, get you now, my fault

I like these. They're a sample I got from c & j, dainite sole

I don't like to quote images needlessly and clutter threads with repetition but there is something about these that is so appealing.
Wouldn't work for my unfortunately square foot, but still I can admire them.

 

[cerneabbas]

I agree with most of this and I guess the Milanese excursion was a little off track here. Or was it? Over on Mod to Suedehead one former suedehead argued recently that the look coming from Lino and his chums is taking things in a more (to him) acceptable direction than that which is offered by J Simons. He saw the Milanese approach as being a more modern take on The Look rather than the backward looking / unchanging styles coming from JS.

I have some sympathy with that view - as long as it is done in an understated way. A quick look at the Sartorialist will reveal many of those old standards we hold dear still alive and well on the streets of Italy. Lino's personal look is, I agree OTT to those of us living in these damp islands!

Going back to Chinese alpha's point which is well made, I would nevertheless ask whether the fishtail parka would ever have been considered by self-respecting Original Modernists as part of their look. Surely it was adopted by the next generation when things were starting to fall apart.

I wonder if any modern clothes designers use the look for their inspiration ?,I suppose that J Simons will sell what he thinks that people will buy ?.
Funny how if you ask most people what they associate Mods with,I would bet the majority would say parkas and scooters,and yet the original Mods just used the parka to protect their tidy clothes when they rode their scooters.