The CM Graveyard: First Sartoria Partenopea... next J. Crew?

[clee1982]

the "newer" RLPL is mostly just like last few year RLBL in terms of style though (if I just look at RL website, mostly Gregory, no more Anthony), though retailer seem to carry a model called Douglas that I like (a bit like Anthony but without the padding)

edit: and looks like there are 2 tier RLPL pricing, some priced like the old RLBL while some are more like the old RLPL (but missing the older model mostly, like Drakes Custom Fit stuff, not sure if there is any more Savillie Row either)

 

[compuccesory]

the "newer" RLPL is mostly just like last few year RLBL in terms of style though (if I just look at RL website, mostly Gregory, no more Anthony), though retailer seem to carry a model called Douglas that I like (a bit like Anthony but without the padding)

edit: and looks like there are 2 tier RLPL pricing, some priced like the old RLBL while some are more like the old RLPL (but missing the older model mostly, like Drakes Custom Fit stuff, not sure if there is any more Savillie Row either)

Is RRL full canvas?

 

[clee1982]

RRL, not sure because it's always center vent so I skipped... though I do like it otherwise (stylistically speaking) and think it has been consistently Caruso?

 

[circumspice]

Polo went a lot "trendy"...

A couple times in the last few years I have seen madras "...skinny ties" which makes me keep clicking through page after page on ralphlauren.com hoping that if they name something skinny, perhaps that is in contrast to the non-skinny version. **** and no.

All the RLPL ties are decidedly non-skinny, but tend to not be what I am looking for.

 

[Big A]

That's the feeling I got. Their cost savings seem to come not from cheap labor but from how their factories are extremely efficient, both in terms of innovations like automation and waste reduction, and in human discipline, i.e. their workers are willing to sit there and fill quotas without slowing down or complaining. They have to do this, because otherwise Vietnam and others might do to them what they did to us.

Cost of labor in Italy might not be much higher than China, actually:

Inside Italy’s Shadow Economy (Published 2018)

Within a distressed labor market, thousands of low-paid home workers create luxury garments without contracts or insurance.

www.nytimes.com

Chinese factories are state of the art because the Chinese government has made them that way to monopolize every industry they can. I would rather pay for similar quality coming from somewhere else.

 

[othertravel]

the "newer" RLPL is mostly just like last few year RLBL in terms of style though (if I just look at RL website, mostly Gregory, no more Anthony), though retailer seem to carry a model called Douglas that I like (a bit like Anthony but without the padding)

edit: and looks like there are 2 tier RLPL pricing, some priced like the old RLBL while some are more like the old RLPL (but missing the older model mostly, like Drakes Custom Fit stuff, not sure if there is any more Savillie Row either)

I tried the Gregory, and it’s very similar to Anthony. Thick and stiff shoulder pad with roping.

The Douglas is also heavily padded, but softer. Creates a rounder look.

I want to try the Kent, which is advertised as their soft shoulder line.

they’ve introduced more pleats this season (they’re making a comeback, which works for me).

RLBL was also made by Cantarelli very early on before switching to Caruso.

And lastly, the RL Collection line fell in between RLBL and RLPL. Made by Corneliani and fully canvassed. Amazing styling (think 1930’s golden age of Hollywood). I have a DB suit from that line with high-rise double pleated trousers. A very unique look.

 

[jts287]

Chinese factories are state of the art because the Chinese government has made them that way to monopolize every industry they can. I would rather pay for similar quality coming from somewhere else.

I'm trying to walk a line and not go overboard on needling China, but wages generally are lower there, and eh&s regs aren't as strict. If I started to talk currency manipulation, I'd be in over my head quickly, but ... . I recall reading here that rising wages are starting to push production lines to Vietnam and Africa; the problem is we the consumer; China's just the current beneficiary.

 

[clee1982]

I tried the Gregory, and it’s very similar to Anthony. Thick and stiff shoulder pad with roping.

The Douglas is also heavily padded, but softer. Creates a rounder look.

I want to try the Kent, which is advertised as their soft shoulder line.

they’ve introduced more pleats this season (they’re making a comeback, which works for me).

RLBL was also made by Cantarelli very early on before switching to Caruso.

And lastly, the RL Collection line fell in between RLBL and RLPL. Made by Corneliani and fully canvassed. Amazing styling (think 1930’s golden age of Hollywood). I have a DB suit from that line with high-rise double pleated trousers. A very unique look.

kent is very tight from what I can remember

 

[clee1982]

Chinese factories are state of the art because the Chinese government has made them that way to monopolize every industry they can. I would rather pay for similar quality coming from somewhere else.

Yes and no, in tech, sure, but I don’t think China has decided each clothing factory to be strategically important enough to do any subsidize other than general macro (if anything, they’re pretty happy to let each of them live and die as long as people are employed)

also I think that’s the irreconcilable part between China and America. It’s fundamentally different system, they put resource to modernize themselves (infrastructure and subsidize in what they consider important), and America came and complain unfair, in their head they just go, well you guys can do that too but you decided not to, you guys think private sector is always superior by choice, not forced up on.

 

[Big A]

Yes and no, in tech, sure, but I don’t think China has decided each clothing factory to be strategically important enough to do any subsidize other than general macro (if anything, they’re pretty happy to let each of them live and die as long as people are employed)

also I think that’s the irreconcilable part between China and America. It’s fundamentally different system, they put resource to modernize themselves (infrastructure and subsidize in what they consider important), and America came and complain unfair, in their head they just go, well you guys can do that too but you decided not to, you guys think private sector is always superior by choice, not forced up on.

You may be right about clothing. My main experience is in industry (primarily steel production) where China cheats its ass off. I'd go into more detail, but the simple story is that the govt starts 10 producers, 2 sell way below market, those 2 get hammered by the WTO or whoever, and then two more suddenly drop their prices below market.

It's true that any government could do it. However it doesn't make it any more fair

 

[clee1982]

That’s fundamentally the irreconcilable part, say if you a US manufacturers and US government decided you’re strategically important and subsidize you to no end (and taxpayer didn’t complain) to make sure you survive, would you call it unfair and not take it?

 

[SpooPoker]

I feel like I need to take notes in this thread today for tomorrows discussion

 

[Viral]

I feel like I need to take notes in this thread today for tomorrows discussion

you finna cop one of these outgoing businesses?? Dope!!

 

[crazn]

That's the feeling I got. Their cost savings seem to come not from cheap labor but from how their factories are extremely efficient, both in terms of innovations like automation and waste reduction, and in human discipline, i.e. their workers are willing to sit there and fill quotas without slowing down or complaining. They have to do this, because otherwise Vietnam and others might do to them what they did to us.

Cost of labor in Italy might not be much higher than China, actually:

Inside Italy’s Shadow Economy (Published 2018)

Within a distressed labor market, thousands of low-paid home workers create luxury garments without contracts or insurance.

www.nytimes.com

prior to 1997. the return of HK to china, most of the good clothing was actually made in South East asia. They were the china before china rose up and sucked all the business from SEA. India and Bangladesh followed suit about a decade later. Now seeing people talk about how manufacturers are thinking of moving out of china into SEA like Vietnam and Indonesia. I can see why China is trying to keep as much business as possible. when your country has 1.5 billion people. nothing sucks up employment like labour intensive work.

I think that's a mis conception, China is not that cheap anymore. Do you think Taiwan is "first world" (I hope so...), lots of Taiwanese go to work in Shanghai instead staying in Taipei because it pays better in Shagnahi..., I mean factory worker what not is different story but generally speaking for the last 2 decade with the economical growth their wage has gone through from both white collar to factory wage workers...

have been many times to both places. at least for a person of taiwanese descent you are willing to accept that the mainland has sped past taipei already. in fact taipei reminds me of the 1980s more than shanghai which is visibly a city more of the 2000s.

 

[SimonC]

China is not homogenous, from a manufacturing perspective. But I sense they are trying to retain the higher quality manufacturing but will not always engage in a ‘race to the bottom’ for the lowest-cost-per-unit buyers.