The CM Graveyard: First Sartoria Partenopea... next J. Crew?

[SuitedDx]

You bring up a good point that we project our behaviors/preferences (within SF) to the general trend whereas the run-of-the-mill consumer isn't as worried about the minute detail or uncreased shell, let alone the whole market of women's clothing.

I do think retailers take into account discounted items and they still make a decent amount of profit. Interestingly when I needed to make extra money for school I worked for BR and I was always surprised how many people bought stuff on retail...

 

[comrade]

I think that the main reason the big mens higher end retailers are failing is
primarily the internet and secondarily the two decade decline in the market
for tailored clothing. Before the web made closeout prices for high end
tailored clothing available worldwide, the market for it was already in decline.
Where I live, the San Francisco Bay Area, Saks Niemans, Barney's and Wilkes
Bashford dominated this market. They managed to survive the "Casual Friday ization"
of mens wear until the last few years. That's when the internet really took hold.
Speaking personally, the last article of tailored clothing which I bought locally
was a suit from now gone Bullock and Jones...in the nineties. For me the
four retailers seemed to have the same buyers- with the possible exception of Wilkes,
pre 2009. They all seem to carry what I call "Italian for the American Market".
Not for me.

 

[Claghorn]

re: J Crew

It went private, so ROA isn't available after 2010.

Articles in Journal of Marketing Research and Journal of Marketing have used Google Trends as a proxy for consumer demand (and one which performs better than traditional measures when it comes to forecasting).

Anyway, looks like there is a slight decrease in demand for J.Crew (though there aren't controls, obviously)

 

[LA Guy]

re: J Crew

It went private, so ROA isn't available after 2010.

Articles in Journal of Marketing Research and Journal of Marketing have used Google Trends as a proxy for consumer demand (and one which performs better than traditional measures when it comes to forecasting).

Anyway, looks like there is a slight decrease in demand for J.Crew (though there aren't controls, obviously)

View attachment 797826

The issue isn't so much a decrease in demand, as a decrease in the demand at a sustainable pricepoint. The internet creates a relentless drive towards discounts that not too many retailers have figured out how to beat yet.

Really, big retailers used to be arbiters of taste, guarantors of quality, etc... at whatever pricepoint, but that is more or less gone, and with that, one of the strongest value propositions for retailers is also gone.

This is pretty much across the board, incidentally, not just in fashion.

 

[jrd617]

The issue isn't so much a decrease in demand, as a decrease in the demand at a sustainable pricepoint. The internet creates a relentless drive towards discounts that not too many retailers have figured out how to beat yet.

Really, big retailers used to be arbiters of taste, guarantors of quality, etc... at whatever pricepoint, but that is more or less gone, and with that, one of the strongest value propositions for retailers is also gone.

This is a great way of explaining what's happening.

I think that strong brands like RL will be able to weather the storm, but there will always be those strong winds in the internet age.

J. Crew I'm not sure of.

 

[FrankCowperwood]

It's also far too easy, from a big retailer's point of view, for small producers to both market and deliver goods to consumers. Not that someone selling suits, pants, belts, or what have you on a small scale brings down big retail by him or herself, but in aggregate it's much less important to have a few large clearinghouses than it was in the past. To echo LAGuy's point, this is true in so many different businesses. The companies that used to be the gatekeepers simply aren't anymore.

 

[dirnelli]

Any news if the SP name is being bought out or whether the production facility (the tailors) is being utilized by another entity?
Something similar happened a few years back when Zegna dissolved their Madova plant. Wondering where all those good tailors went.

Before Partenopea went bust, Cifonelli was using them for their ready-to-wear relaunch, under the creative direction of John Vizzone, after using Caruso & Isaia previously. After SP went bust, there was talk of using the same workers to continue to make Cifonelli RTW. I don't know whether that actually transpired or not -- but it would totally make sense if it did, because Cifonelli is very demanding about who they will trust to make ready-to-wear to their own specifications, so if the crew at SP knew how to meet Lorenzo's and John's exacting standards, it would indeed be more cost-effective to keep using the same workers rather than having to take the risk of training new workers to make Cifonelli garments.
FWIW -- as someone who has personally tested just about every noteworthy manufacturer out there, I will lament the passing of Partenopea, which I consider to be among the best RTW makers, having made some of the finest suits and jackets to be found in my idiotic collection of about 300 suits and jackets.

 

[jrd617]

I will lament the passing of Partenopea, which I consider to be among the best RTW makers, having made some of the finest suits and jackets to be found in my idiotic collection of about 300 suits and jackets.

Sad!!!

 

[jrd617]

Here's an Italian language article on the factory that @alexSF found. In Chome, you right click and then click "translate to English" to read it

http://www.ilmattino.it/napoli/cron...ul_tetto_e_minaccia_di_lanciarsi-1794508.html

 

[vida]

What about sites like MR. Porter? I use them quite often, and I wonder how they may be contributing to the decline.

 

[dirnelli]

Here's an Italian language article on the factory that @alexSF found. In Chome, you right click and then click "translate to English" to read it

http://www.ilmattino.it/napoli/cron...ul_tetto_e_minaccia_di_lanciarsi-1794508.html

Unfortunately the article doesn't give us much insight as to why they went bust.

 

[IChen]

What about sites like MR. Porter? I use them quite often, and I wonder how they may be contributing to the decline.

If you just think about it, more competition. Take for example a brand like Gucci, they're just taking away more profit for their own by spreading around their products. Mr Porter and even department stores especially now with good discounts like getting cash at for example Bloomingdales.

 

[IChen]

Also forgot to say but anyone surprised about Louis Vuitton producing their shoes in a sweatshop in Romania but then finishing in France? Not really surprising since many do this but still

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...e-where-louis-vuitton-makes-its-italian-shoes

 

[comrade]

Also forgot to say but anyone surprised about Louis Vuitton producing their shoes in a sweatshop in Romania but then finishing in France? Not really surprising since many do this but still

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...e-where-louis-vuitton-makes-its-italian-shoes

This is a well established practice. Many high end shoe brands particularly
in mens shoes are made in the Transylvania region of Romania,
which is ethnically Hungarian. In this region there is a tradition
of excellent craftsmanship and relatively low wages. Notable Vienna
vendors with Hungarian or Romanian surnames include Maftei,
Balint (recently closed).

 

[IChen]

It's a place of good craftsmanship but I wonder if many people will be surprised who don't know much beyond the "made in" tag :/

Shouldn't hurt their handbag business at all though I'd think