The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[DorianGreen]

 

[DorianGreen]

Yohei Fukuda.

 

[DorianGreen]

 

[jazznpool]

I was a bit surprised to learn John Lobb London does not make a pair fitting shoes as part of their revered bespoke program. Fitting shoes seem to me to be an essential element of getting an excellent custom fit. Understandably it involves extra time, expense and scheduling but that is built in to the pricing of the experience. I assume John Lobb London will do a complete remake if the finished shoes or boots cannot be adjusted to fit properly.

What I am now wondering is who else does not make a fitting shoe as part of the bespoke process? Can any patrons of John Lobb London comment on their experience in this regard? TY.

 

[jonathanS]

I was a bit surprised to learn John Lobb London does not make a pair fitting shoes as part of their revered bespoke program. Fitting shoes seem to me to be an essential element of getting an excellent custom fit. Understandably it involves extra time, expense and scheduling but that is built in to the pricing of the experience. I assume John Lobb London will do a complete remake if the finished shoes or boots cannot be adjusted to fit properly.

What I am now wondering is who else does not make a fitting shoe as part of the bespoke process? Can any patrons of John Lobb London comment on their experience in this regard? TY.

You would think, given how much they charge, that a fitting shoe would be nice. Even if it’s only for show.

 

[yunBW]

Not exactly a bespoke project, but does anyone know where can I find makers that does similar style to the The Row loafer? Been quite iffy on the sole for them for how much they charge. Just been looking for a sleek loafer shape with unstructured leather construction

 

[zzzzzzzzhl]

Hi Everyone,


My bespoke orders with a shoemaker are becoming increasingly problematic on both the service and product sides, and I would appreciate your views and any advice you might have. I will try to provide a fair account of the experience chronologically, and there is a TLDR at the bottom.



The shoemaker & Order-placing:

Since this is still ongoing, I feel it is best to not talk about the shoemaker's brand yet. I will just mention that they are fully bespoke capable, and do have a track record of successful deliveries.

I placed my first order in early 2022. Later I placed a second pair on the same last but with a different pattern. Previously had a pair of MTM with them which turned out pretty good (in MTM standard) and decided to step up to bespoke so I can have a personalized fit.


Trial #1 & #2:

The first trial pair was delivered in Dec. 2022. The fit was unsatisfactory, and I paid for an extra trial pair. I had a particular pattern design in mind which took a lot of time on both parties to materialize exactly the way I wanted, and the trial pair’s pattern was executed very well. As a result, I was excited and placed a third order of Chelsea boots. The boot last has a different toe shape but was developed on the previous last so the fit is the same, and I won’t differentiate them going forward.

The second trial pair was delivered in Feb. 2023. The fit was much better, but still needed to add extra volume at the toes and top of toenails. I also had the first trial pair of Chelsea delivered, same problem, so I asked them to apply the same modification to the Chelsea. I repeatedly emphasized adding width verbally, asked them to write that down on the sole of trial shoes, and also summarized everything into a reminder and sent it to the shoemaker.


Delivery:

The three finished pairs were delivered in Jun. 2023. All were unwearable; I couldn’t walk in them for over five minutes without hurting my toes.

The issues from the second trial pairs were not resolved at all, still insufficient room at the toes and toenails. The staff explained that the last maker went too conservative with adding volume, in favor of slim aesthetics. There was also an uncomfortable amount of arch support, since the finished pairs' hand-welted construction was much more structured than the cemented construction of trial pairs, and what was okay with the trials became unbearable with the finished pairs.

I demanded a complete remake, but the staff insisted on stretching the shoes first by adding extra volume on the lasts and putting the shoes back on them. Personally, I thought that was a bad idea and a waste of time. In commercial norm, for bespoke, the shoemaker has the obligation to make a pristine good-fitting pair, not a stretched make-do one. In practice, I also don’t see how this would work because too much room need to be stretched (~5mm). But the staff was persistent in “exhausting the possibilities,” and I had an overseas secondment coming up which left me no extra energy on this, so I acquiesced.


Post-delivery:

I left for my overseas secondment and could only monitor the progress remotely. The shoemaker (one of the staff, behind their official business account) contacted me in Oct. 2023, saying there was a discount and if I wanted another order. I was mildly annoyed and replied they really shouldn’t be asking me that when all my three pairs were not wearable at all, not due to extenuating circumstances or technical difficulties, but simply not following my input.

The staff was surprised because he just took over the account from his predecessor and had no knowledge of my orders and said he would follow up on this. Later he replied and assured my pairs would definitely be fixed, and my case was totally fine because “in the past, there were internationally famous bespoke makers who needed 10+ trials to make the fit right.” I questioned the accuracy of info (in retrospect asking for source of info should be a more effective), but he didn’t answer straightly. I really doubt this staff’s expertise, and reached out to another sales rep I knew. The sales said he was a marketing specialist so his shoe knowledge might not be the most accurate. I protested about that, and asked the sales rep to be my point of contact at the shoemaker going forward.


Stretching Result:

I returned home for three weeks in Dec. 2023 and could finally see how the shoes turned out. The stretching didn't work. The shoes were overly stretched at the instep that they no longer secured my midfoot. And it failed to create the necessary room at the toes, and it still hurt walking in them.

I demanded a full refund, but the owner of the shoemaker refused, saying that "at this stage the majority of their work is done, so it will be unfair for them." Instead, they promised they would make a new trial pair before my departure and remake all three with no extra costs. I was reluctant to accept that, gradually realizing that I didn’t have anything to leverage after paying the full amount, so they always have their way.


Trial #3:

The third pair was ready right before I went back for work. They didn’t make a new pair but re-soled the second trial pair to add some volume at the toes. The added volume turned out to be not enough to make walking pain-free. The last maker couldn’t travel to my city because there were no other bespoke order appointments, so it was not economical. There was a sales rep there, and all he could do was using a knife to cut the shoe open in the toes and recording a video talking to the last maker “maybe we should add 4mm here…”.

I made a complaint once again. First, they were modifying trial shoes, and I doubted it can be replicated accurately back to the last, even if the modified shoe fitted alright. Secondly, this was turning into a trial-and-error game, since if taking the previously finished pairs as a field test as well, this was the fourth bad fitting shoes I had. Thirdly, it was a bespoke order, and is just too petty. The sales rep asked me for more patience and understanding, and promised a brand new trial shoe would be made after communicating with the shoemaker’s owner. I was mad because all I received for my complaint was just swift apologies, and I was just beating a dead horse.

My vacation was up so I had to get back to work, and I began communicating with the shoemaker remotely again.


After Trial #3:

I checked the new trial shoe’s status in mid Mar. 2024. The sales replied, “they are finalizing some details and will be finished soon”.

Checked again on Apr. 2nd, 2024. The sales replied that “they were currently working on their entry to this year’s World Championship of Shoemaking so my trials were deprioritized, but he already re-prioritized them and will ship it internationally to my location soon”.

I appreciated his honesty to tell me the truth, still I completely lost it at the total disregard of service quality. Even if someone argues that the competition may justify delaying my long-overdue order, at least I deserve a notice in advance. I don’t think I able to enjoy the shoes even if they are able to deliver, after everything I went through. I asked for a partial refund even if I had zero responsibility for this and got nothing for the last two years, in hope of getting rid of this mess but was still refused.


TLDR:

I had three bespoke orders at a shoemaker and they failed to produce a good-fitting pair with 3 trial pairs (and a finished pair) in almost 2 years. One of the staff gave inaccurate and potentially misleading information. They delayed my order for World Championship of Shoemaking without any notice, and they didn’t respond to my complaint in any meaningful way.


My feet are extra wide with a low instep, but nothing orthopedically complicated. I have remote bespoke from another shoemaker that fits really well with two trial pairs and basic feet tracking, so it doesn’t take a herculean effort to fit me.

So I just want to ask my fellow gentlemen here, is it normal to not get the fit right with this many trials in bespoke? In terms of service quality, am I getting fair treatment? Is it reasonable to ask for a refund in this situation (either full or partial)?

And if reasonable, what measure can I use to get my refund? I do keep all the conversation history with the shoemaker and its staff members. I had gone the verbal route and applied all my negotiation skills, but it wasn’t going anywhere. All I got was "please consider our difficulties.

 

[Texasmade]

So I just want to ask my fellow gentlemen here, is it normal to not get the fit right with this many trials in bespoke? In terms of service quality, am I getting fair treatment? Is it reasonable to ask for a refund in this situation (either full or partial)?

And if reasonable, what measure can I use to get my refund? I do keep all the conversation history with the shoemaker and its staff members. I had gone the verbal route and applied all my negotiation skills, but it wasn’t going anywhere. All I got was "please consider our difficulties.

I went through multiple fittings when I had my first pair of JLP shoes made. I think around 5 or 6 before getting a final pair of shoes. When I got them, they were way too big. I showed this to Paul Wilson (head of bespoke in US) who marked them up and sent them off to the Paris workshop to remake.

I doubt you'll be able to get a refund at this point. You might have to write this one up as a loss and not use this maker again. If you use another maker, never order a 2nd pair unless you're satisfied with the first and never order a 3rd unless you're satisfied with the 2nd.

 

[sensuki]

I posted earlier in the thread about my first bespoke experience with a local shoemaker here. The issue I had was the final fitting shoe seemed to fit well, and the initial try on (without the sock liner/heelpad) seemed good but the final delivery the shoes were uncomfortable, particularly in the heel, I wore a hole in the lining leather over a few wears due to rubbing and got bad blisters from wearing the shoes.

I also like the above poster, made the mistake of ordering a second pair before the issues with the first pair were fixed, kind of in hope that the fit would be right on the second go - the last was changed quite a bit to try and fix the problem, and exactly like the first pair - fitting shoe felt great, shoe again felt great with the first try on (without the sockliner/heelpad), but the same fit issue persisted, and this time I noticed that the shoes laced perfectly without the heelpad/sock liner but with them in, the facings were misaligned, and one was being pulled backwards.

Only after ordering the second pair and reflecting on the issue, I have come to conclude that it's the sock liner and heel pad throwing things off - my foot is sitting higher in the shoe, and it's not accounted for in the last. The maker offered to remove them to see if it fixed it, although at this stage I haven't gone in to have that done (maybe I should though).

It took 2 pairs ($$$$) for me to discover what I think the problem is, which to me is an issue with the maker's process. Theoretically I could mention it to them and try again, but I simply don't have the confidence in them. I have learned from this experience and from now on, if the first product is a no-go - that's the end of the relationship for me.

I had also made this same mistake with an MTM tailoring outfit before, first item didn't work out but ordered again in the hope it would. It did not.

 

[Texasmade]

It took 2 pairs ($$$$) for me to discover what I think the problem is, which to me is an issue with the maker's process. Theoretically I could mention it to them and try again, but I simply don't have the confidence in them. I have learned from this experience and from now on, if the first product is a no-go - that's the end of the relationship for me.

This seems sort of like a basic thing. Trial shoe has no liner but final shoe will so make sure to adjust for that. I can't believe the maker would totally ignore this.

For my bespoke orders whether shoes or tailoring, I'll commission 1 order. Once that's finished, commission a 2nd order later on and have the maker do any adjustments necessary to see how the 2nd order looks. If that looks good then I'll be down with future commissions.

For JLP, I ordered my first pair that was too big. They remade and fit was much better. On the 2nd pair, I had them correct some of the shaping on my last since the shoes didn't look identical and out of proportion. Received my 2nd pair and then eventually ordered my 3rd pair summer of last year.

 

[epsilon22]

I'm actually surprised it seems quite common for people to order their second/third orders before they get their first delivery. I was actually planning to at least wear my first pair for a meaningful amount of time (e.g., a couple of months) before ordering my second, so I'd have some decent mileage clocked in and be able to give feedback about fit.

Then again maybe that's just my inexperience showing, I have so far 6 pairs of dress shoes, 2 of which I deem unwearable. I imagine most people get their first bespoke pairs after more than just experiencing 4-6 pairs of RTW.

Some of my shoes I found okay-ish while trying on and turned out to be fine after breaking them in, while others felt fine while trying on, and turned into torture devices after walking a few km. I wouldn't be able to confidently claim that a pair of shoes are comfortable without walking a decent amount in them first.

 

[othertravel]

Hi Everyone,


My bespoke orders with a shoemaker are becoming increasingly problematic on both the service and product sides, and I would appreciate your views and any advice you might have. I will try to provide a fair account of the experience chronologically, and there is a TLDR at the bottom.



The shoemaker & Order-placing:

Since this is still ongoing, I feel it is best to not talk about the shoemaker's brand yet. I will just mention that they are fully bespoke capable, and do have a track record of successful deliveries.

I placed my first order in early 2022. Later I placed a second pair on the same last but with a different pattern. Previously had a pair of MTM with them which turned out pretty good (in MTM standard) and decided to step up to bespoke so I can have a personalized fit.


Trial #1 & #2:

The first trial pair was delivered in Dec. 2022. The fit was unsatisfactory, and I paid for an extra trial pair. I had a particular pattern design in mind which took a lot of time on both parties to materialize exactly the way I wanted, and the trial pair’s pattern was executed very well. As a result, I was excited and placed a third order of Chelsea boots. The boot last has a different toe shape but was developed on the previous last so the fit is the same, and I won’t differentiate them going forward.

The second trial pair was delivered in Feb. 2023. The fit was much better, but still needed to add extra volume at the toes and top of toenails. I also had the first trial pair of Chelsea delivered, same problem, so I asked them to apply the same modification to the Chelsea. I repeatedly emphasized adding width verbally, asked them to write that down on the sole of trial shoes, and also summarized everything into a reminder and sent it to the shoemaker.


Delivery:

The three finished pairs were delivered in Jun. 2023. All were unwearable; I couldn’t walk in them for over five minutes without hurting my toes.

The issues from the second trial pairs were not resolved at all, still insufficient room at the toes and toenails. The staff explained that the last maker went too conservative with adding volume, in favor of slim aesthetics. There was also an uncomfortable amount of arch support, since the finished pairs' hand-welted construction was much more structured than the cemented construction of trial pairs, and what was okay with the trials became unbearable with the finished pairs.

I demanded a complete remake, but the staff insisted on stretching the shoes first by adding extra volume on the lasts and putting the shoes back on them. Personally, I thought that was a bad idea and a waste of time. In commercial norm, for bespoke, the shoemaker has the obligation to make a pristine good-fitting pair, not a stretched make-do one. In practice, I also don’t see how this would work because too much room need to be stretched (~5mm). But the staff was persistent in “exhausting the possibilities,” and I had an overseas secondment coming up which left me no extra energy on this, so I acquiesced.


Post-delivery:

I left for my overseas secondment and could only monitor the progress remotely. The shoemaker (one of the staff, behind their official business account) contacted me in Oct. 2023, saying there was a discount and if I wanted another order. I was mildly annoyed and replied they really shouldn’t be asking me that when all my three pairs were not wearable at all, not due to extenuating circumstances or technical difficulties, but simply not following my input.

The staff was surprised because he just took over the account from his predecessor and had no knowledge of my orders and said he would follow up on this. Later he replied and assured my pairs would definitely be fixed, and my case was totally fine because “in the past, there were internationally famous bespoke makers who needed 10+ trials to make the fit right.” I questioned the accuracy of info (in retrospect asking for source of info should be a more effective), but he didn’t answer straightly. I really doubt this staff’s expertise, and reached out to another sales rep I knew. The sales said he was a marketing specialist so his shoe knowledge might not be the most accurate. I protested about that, and asked the sales rep to be my point of contact at the shoemaker going forward.


Stretching Result:

I returned home for three weeks in Dec. 2023 and could finally see how the shoes turned out. The stretching didn't work. The shoes were overly stretched at the instep that they no longer secured my midfoot. And it failed to create the necessary room at the toes, and it still hurt walking in them.

I demanded a full refund, but the owner of the shoemaker refused, saying that "at this stage the majority of their work is done, so it will be unfair for them." Instead, they promised they would make a new trial pair before my departure and remake all three with no extra costs. I was reluctant to accept that, gradually realizing that I didn’t have anything to leverage after paying the full amount, so they always have their way.


Trial #3:

The third pair was ready right before I went back for work. They didn’t make a new pair but re-soled the second trial pair to add some volume at the toes. The added volume turned out to be not enough to make walking pain-free. The last maker couldn’t travel to my city because there were no other bespoke order appointments, so it was not economical. There was a sales rep there, and all he could do was using a knife to cut the shoe open in the toes and recording a video talking to the last maker “maybe we should add 4mm here…”.

I made a complaint once again. First, they were modifying trial shoes, and I doubted it can be replicated accurately back to the last, even if the modified shoe fitted alright. Secondly, this was turning into a trial-and-error game, since if taking the previously finished pairs as a field test as well, this was the fourth bad fitting shoes I had. Thirdly, it was a bespoke order, and is just too petty. The sales rep asked me for more patience and understanding, and promised a brand new trial shoe would be made after communicating with the shoemaker’s owner. I was mad because all I received for my complaint was just swift apologies, and I was just beating a dead horse.

My vacation was up so I had to get back to work, and I began communicating with the shoemaker remotely again.


After Trial #3:

I checked the new trial shoe’s status in mid Mar. 2024. The sales replied, “they are finalizing some details and will be finished soon”.

Checked again on Apr. 2nd, 2024. The sales replied that “they were currently working on their entry to this year’s World Championship of Shoemaking so my trials were deprioritized, but he already re-prioritized them and will ship it internationally to my location soon”.

I appreciated his honesty to tell me the truth, still I completely lost it at the total disregard of service quality. Even if someone argues that the competition may justify delaying my long-overdue order, at least I deserve a notice in advance. I don’t think I able to enjoy the shoes even if they are able to deliver, after everything I went through. I asked for a partial refund even if I had zero responsibility for this and got nothing for the last two years, in hope of getting rid of this mess but was still refused.


TLDR:

I had three bespoke orders at a shoemaker and they failed to produce a good-fitting pair with 3 trial pairs (and a finished pair) in almost 2 years. One of the staff gave inaccurate and potentially misleading information. They delayed my order for World Championship of Shoemaking without any notice, and they didn’t respond to my complaint in any meaningful way.


My feet are extra wide with a low instep, but nothing orthopedically complicated. I have remote bespoke from another shoemaker that fits really well with two trial pairs and basic feet tracking, so it doesn’t take a herculean effort to fit me.

So I just want to ask my fellow gentlemen here, is it normal to not get the fit right with this many trials in bespoke? In terms of service quality, am I getting fair treatment? Is it reasonable to ask for a refund in this situation (either full or partial)?

And if reasonable, what measure can I use to get my refund? I do keep all the conversation history with the shoemaker and its staff members. I had gone the verbal route and applied all my negotiation skills, but it wasn’t going anywhere. All I got was "please consider our difficulties.

Was it Cleverley?

 

[Texasmade]

Was it Cleverley?

I was thinking them first until he said World Championship of Shoemaking. Cleverly would never participate because they would do poorly. I'm thinking it's some Italian brand.

 

[jazznpool]

Hi Everyone,


My bespoke orders with a shoemaker are becoming increasingly problematic on both the service and product sides, and I would appreciate your views and any advice you might have. I will try to provide a fair account of the experience chronologically, and there is a TLDR at the bottom.



The shoemaker & Order-placing:

Since this is still ongoing, I feel it is best to not talk about the shoemaker's brand yet. I will just mention that they are fully bespoke capable, and do have a track record of successful deliveries.

I placed my first order in early 2022. Later I placed a second pair on the same last but with a different pattern. Previously had a pair of MTM with them which turned out pretty good (in MTM standard) and decided to step up to bespoke so I can have a personalized fit.


Trial #1 & #2:

The first trial pair was delivered in Dec. 2022. The fit was unsatisfactory, and I paid for an extra trial pair. I had a particular pattern design in mind which took a lot of time on both parties to materialize exactly the way I wanted, and the trial pair’s pattern was executed very well. As a result, I was excited and placed a third order of Chelsea boots. The boot last has a different toe shape but was developed on the previous last so the fit is the same, and I won’t differentiate them going forward.

The second trial pair was delivered in Feb. 2023. The fit was much better, but still needed to add extra volume at the toes and top of toenails. I also had the first trial pair of Chelsea delivered, same problem, so I asked them to apply the same modification to the Chelsea. I repeatedly emphasized adding width verbally, asked them to write that down on the sole of trial shoes, and also summarized everything into a reminder and sent it to the shoemaker.


Delivery:

The three finished pairs were delivered in Jun. 2023. All were unwearable; I couldn’t walk in them for over five minutes without hurting my toes.

The issues from the second trial pairs were not resolved at all, still insufficient room at the toes and toenails. The staff explained that the last maker went too conservative with adding volume, in favor of slim aesthetics. There was also an uncomfortable amount of arch support, since the finished pairs' hand-welted construction was much more structured than the cemented construction of trial pairs, and what was okay with the trials became unbearable with the finished pairs.

I demanded a complete remake, but the staff insisted on stretching the shoes first by adding extra volume on the lasts and putting the shoes back on them. Personally, I thought that was a bad idea and a waste of time. In commercial norm, for bespoke, the shoemaker has the obligation to make a pristine good-fitting pair, not a stretched make-do one. In practice, I also don’t see how this would work because too much room need to be stretched (~5mm). But the staff was persistent in “exhausting the possibilities,” and I had an overseas secondment coming up which left me no extra energy on this, so I acquiesced.


Post-delivery:

I left for my overseas secondment and could only monitor the progress remotely. The shoemaker (one of the staff, behind their official business account) contacted me in Oct. 2023, saying there was a discount and if I wanted another order. I was mildly annoyed and replied they really shouldn’t be asking me that when all my three pairs were not wearable at all, not due to extenuating circumstances or technical difficulties, but simply not following my input.

The staff was surprised because he just took over the account from his predecessor and had no knowledge of my orders and said he would follow up on this. Later he replied and assured my pairs would definitely be fixed, and my case was totally fine because “in the past, there were internationally famous bespoke makers who needed 10+ trials to make the fit right.” I questioned the accuracy of info (in retrospect asking for source of info should be a more effective), but he didn’t answer straightly. I really doubt this staff’s expertise, and reached out to another sales rep I knew. The sales said he was a marketing specialist so his shoe knowledge might not be the most accurate. I protested about that, and asked the sales rep to be my point of contact at the shoemaker going forward.


Stretching Result:

I returned home for three weeks in Dec. 2023 and could finally see how the shoes turned out. The stretching didn't work. The shoes were overly stretched at the instep that they no longer secured my midfoot. And it failed to create the necessary room at the toes, and it still hurt walking in them.

I demanded a full refund, but the owner of the shoemaker refused, saying that "at this stage the majority of their work is done, so it will be unfair for them." Instead, they promised they would make a new trial pair before my departure and remake all three with no extra costs. I was reluctant to accept that, gradually realizing that I didn’t have anything to leverage after paying the full amount, so they always have their way.


Trial #3:

The third pair was ready right before I went back for work. They didn’t make a new pair but re-soled the second trial pair to add some volume at the toes. The added volume turned out to be not enough to make walking pain-free. The last maker couldn’t travel to my city because there were no other bespoke order appointments, so it was not economical. There was a sales rep there, and all he could do was using a knife to cut the shoe open in the toes and recording a video talking to the last maker “maybe we should add 4mm here…”.

I made a complaint once again. First, they were modifying trial shoes, and I doubted it can be replicated accurately back to the last, even if the modified shoe fitted alright. Secondly, this was turning into a trial-and-error game, since if taking the previously finished pairs as a field test as well, this was the fourth bad fitting shoes I had. Thirdly, it was a bespoke order, and is just too petty. The sales rep asked me for more patience and understanding, and promised a brand new trial shoe would be made after communicating with the shoemaker’s owner. I was mad because all I received for my complaint was just swift apologies, and I was just beating a dead horse.

My vacation was up so I had to get back to work, and I began communicating with the shoemaker remotely again.


After Trial #3:

I checked the new trial shoe’s status in mid Mar. 2024. The sales replied, “they are finalizing some details and will be finished soon”.

Checked again on Apr. 2nd, 2024. The sales replied that “they were currently working on their entry to this year’s World Championship of Shoemaking so my trials were deprioritized, but he already re-prioritized them and will ship it internationally to my location soon”.

I appreciated his honesty to tell me the truth, still I completely lost it at the total disregard of service quality. Even if someone argues that the competition may justify delaying my long-overdue order, at least I deserve a notice in advance. I don’t think I able to enjoy the shoes even if they are able to deliver, after everything I went through. I asked for a partial refund even if I had zero responsibility for this and got nothing for the last two years, in hope of getting rid of this mess but was still refused.


TLDR:

I had three bespoke orders at a shoemaker and they failed to produce a good-fitting pair with 3 trial pairs (and a finished pair) in almost 2 years. One of the staff gave inaccurate and potentially misleading information. They delayed my order for World Championship of Shoemaking without any notice, and they didn’t respond to my complaint in any meaningful way.


My feet are extra wide with a low instep, but nothing orthopedically complicated. I have remote bespoke from another shoemaker that fits really well with two trial pairs and basic feet tracking, so it doesn’t take a herculean effort to fit me.

So I just want to ask my fellow gentlemen here, is it normal to not get the fit right with this many trials in bespoke? In terms of service quality, am I getting fair treatment? Is it reasonable to ask for a refund in this situation (either full or partial)?

And if reasonable, what measure can I use to get my refund? I do keep all the conversation history with the shoemaker and its staff members. I had gone the verbal route and applied all my negotiation skills, but it wasn’t going anywhere. All I got was "please consider our difficulties.

Sorry to hear you're having an such an unfortunate experience that was compounded by ordering more shoes before knowing the maker could get your fit correct. Given everything you have said here, I think would simply be patient and allow the new ownership group the time they need to deliver what you paid for--only checking in with them periodically if need be. I would assume the maker does not want poor feedback involving the brand.

Your experience makes me wonder even more how the most revered and historic London shoemaker, John Lobb London, is able to make good fitting shoes without the help of a fitting/trial pair. Admittedly I am a relative noob to the bespoke process, but not to fine footwear.

 

[jazznpool]

I'm actually surprised it seems quite common for people to order their second/third orders before they get their first delivery. I was actually planning to at least wear my first pair for a meaningful amount of time (e.g., a couple of months) before ordering my second, so I'd have some decent mileage clocked in and be able to give feedback about fit.

Then again maybe that's just my inexperience showing, I have so far 6 pairs of dress shoes, 2 of which I deem unwearable. I imagine most people get their first bespoke pairs after more than just experiencing 4-6 pairs of RTW.

Some of my shoes I found okay-ish while trying on and turned out to be fine after breaking them in, while others felt fine while trying on, and turned into torture devices after walking a few km. I wouldn't be able to confidently claim that a pair of shoes are comfortable without walking a decent amount in them first.

Wow, Thanks for your candor here. I'd be a very unhappy camper to pay first tier bespoke prices to end up with unwearable shoes--that's an unacceptable bespoke nightmare!

Your experience is a reminder to make sure I discuss the possibility of further adjustments following a brief shoe break-in period with the bespoke commissions I have in the pipeline. I am hoping that I will be able to proceed with a second commission from each of the 2 shoemakers I am currently engaging with, assuming the first pairs have the bespoke comfort I seek.