suit shop.com - Australia (Patrick Johnson) any feedback?

[foulard]

Originally Posted by AriGold

Foulard - then would you consider Herringbone RTW overpriced?


Why is it that theWraith cannot find it even plausible that a person might actually get a better suit from Patrick Johnson than if they went to Zink and Sons? Could it be possible that Suit Shop might be as good as Zink in terms of quality? Could it be perhaps that the styling or feedback from a younger more contemporary Patrick Johnson might provide something closer to what the customer wants?

There's a multitude of reasons as to why Suit Shop could be > Zink and sons, for a particular customer. You have provided no hard evidence as to why these scenarios are not plausible. Your mentioning of price without attaching it to any means of justification is arbitrary.




If this is not an ulterior motive... then I don't know what is. (which is as misleading as something today tonight would do)

I dont know how much Herringbone costs. I know my brother buys their suits but thats because by fluke, his body shape is an almost perfect fit to their RTW garments. So he cant lose. I personally have a lot of muscularity on my upper body and would have to get a massively oversized suit from them just to fit properly around the shoulders.

As for the rest of your comments, I just cant comment about what Mr Johnson's background is. But is it not relevant to consider somebody's training and experience before engaging them to do something for you. I would have thought that is the case with not only tailoring but in fact any trade or profession. For example there is a difference between a lawyer who's just finished university and a QC.

As to there being many reasons why Suitshop may be better for some people, I completely agree with you. There may be reasons including price, the fabric may be superior, the cut may be particularly complimentary etc. I agree.

But at the same time you cannot ignore price. You only know if something is a good deal by judging it based on the cost of it compared to its quality. I was making reference to price because it is the only thing in this thread that anyone actually knew about.

I didnt see a photo of a suit from Suitshop posted here so that I could say "**** now there's a suit, and for $X !" All we know from all the posters experience is the price issue. I also happen to know about the suits made by Zink but even those are now around 8 years old.

Sorry have I given you the impression that something I said was unreasonable somewhere along the line?

 

[JohnsNotHere]

This thread is in dire need of some pictures

 

[AndrewRogers]

All I can do is repeat what I said earlier which is that the MTM coat done by this guy who was once a wine maker is excellent. I would like one like that! Who cares what the process was (bespoke or MTM)? The outcome is excellent. I know I went to Adamo. He didn't keep a paper pattern on record for me. I'd call that MTM.

 

[foulard]

Originally Posted by JohnsNotHere

This thread is in dire need of some pictures

If the Suitshop or Patrick Johnson can make any of you blokes look like this, then I don't want to go to him for a suit, but I'd love to take you out for a drink.

 

[foulard]

Originally Posted by AndrewRogers

All I can do is repeat what I said earlier which is that the MTM coat done by this guy who was once a wine maker is excellent. I would like one like that! Who cares what the process was (bespoke or MTM)? The outcome is excellent. I know I went to Adamo. He didn't keep a paper pattern on record for me. I'd call that MTM.

Well you really dont know what your talking about then now do you?

 

[AriGold]

Originally Posted by foulard

I dont know how much Herringbone costs. I know my brother buys their suits but thats because by fluke, his body shape is an almost perfect fit to their RTW garments. So he cant lose. I personally have a lot of muscularity on my upper body and would have to get a massively oversized suit from them just to fit properly around the shoulders. As for the rest of your comments, I just cant comment about what Mr Johnson's background is. But is it not relevant to consider somebody's training and experience before engaging them to do something for you. I would have thought that is the case with not only tailoring but in fact any trade or profession. For example there is a difference between a lawyer who's just finished university and a QC. As to there being many reasons why Suitshop may be better for some people, I completely agree with you. There may be reasons including price, the fabric may be superior, the cut may be particularly complimentary etc. I agree. But at the same time you cannot ignore price. You only know if something is a good deal by judging it based on the cost of it compared to its quality. I was making reference to price because it is the only thing in this thread that anyone actually knew about. I didnt see a photo of a suit from Suitshop posted here so that I could say "**** now there's a suit, and for $X !" All we know from all the posters experience is the price issue. I also happen to know about the suits made by Zink but even those are now around 8 years old. Sorry have I given you the impression that something I said was unreasonable somewhere along the line?
With Regards to RTW: Foulard, herringbone happens to fit me reasonably well and I am muscular as well 188cm and 90kgs. If the suit is $900, but it just looks great and I don't have to wait ages for stuff to get done and possibly multiple fittings - then great I won't bother spending that extra 2-300 for MTM. This could be a possible rationale for picking up something from suit shop. Perhaps zinc and sons produce a fine suit but a more conservative cut - which, for the customer who does not have the expertise in tailoring or cutting, maybe struggle to alter to their exact tastes. There is no need for apologies foulard, my comment beyond asking your opinion of herringbone are directed at theWraith. The Issue of Price: Sure there is no doubt price is an issue. But price cannot be the only determining factor - it is arbitrary if you disregard the actual product you are receiving. The main issue directed at theWraith is that he fails to consider possible reasons why suit shop can justify their price tags - Not only has there been a completely satisfied poster in this very thread, there are many others who compliment how great it is. Would you rather take theWraiths unfounded criticisms of suit shop and go for Zink when he hasn't even tried it himself? Oh yea and that brings up the episode of steven aver....

Originally Posted by foulard

If the Suitshop or Patrick Johnson can make any of you blokes look like this, then I don't want to go to him for a suit, but I'd love to take you out for a drink.

I don't really understand what you are saying.... so if patrick johnson made me look like that, you'd take me out for a drink? even though i am male and still have a penis? lol

 

[foulard]

I don't really understand what you are saying.... so if patrick johnson made me look like that, you'd take me out for a drink? even though i am male and still have a penis? lol[/quote]

If you are a male and you look like that then I need to start getting some therapy.

 

[AndrewRogers]

Originally Posted by foulard

Well you really dont know what your talking about then now do you?

What I was talking about was trying not to get lost in the process and forgetting about the outcome. Adamo has produced some great work for people here and on the one occasion I used him, what I had was MTM with two fittings, not bespoke. If he's drafting an individual pattern for you, that's great, and perhaps I was treated differently from others. I think the coat posted a few pages back is great, and in doing so I am focussing on the outcome. I don't think people ought to detract from that by pointing out that it was got to using less than ideal means.*

*Unlike some other members here, I have no past record of giving on-line MTM operations virtual falatio.

 

[foulard]

Originally Posted by AndrewRogers

What I was talking about was trying not to get lost in the process and forgetting about the outcome. Adamo has produced some great work for people here and on the one occasion I used him, what I had was MTM with two fittings, not bespoke. If he's drafting an individual pattern for you, that's great, and perhaps I was treated differently from others. I think the coat posted a few pages back is great, and in doing so I am focussing on the outcome. I don't think people ought to detract from that by pointing out that it was got to using less than ideal means.*

*Unlike some other members here, I have no past record of giving on-line MTM operations virtual falatio.

I find what you're saying incredible. How could you go to a tailor and not discuss with him whether he is doing a MTM for you or bespoke. Did you literally walk in and not talk?
eg You said "Make coat"
reply "OK"
If you had two fittings what did he do during those fittings? If its made to measure you would have generally thought that he would have measured you up, produced a coat and then given you one fitting to make final adjustments if any.

 

[apropos]

Originally Posted by foulard

I find what you're saying incredible. How could you go to a tailor and not discuss with him whether he is doing a MTM for you or bespoke. Did you literally walk in and not talk? eg You said "Make coat" reply "OK" If you had two fittings what did he do during those fittings? If its made to measure you would have generally thought that he would have measured you up, produced a coat and then given you one fitting to make final adjustments if any.
His point was not to get too caught up in whether the process justifies the price, but to rather concern yourself with whether the outcome justifies the price. What use is $500 bespoke that comes out terrible, and what purpose is served by shooting down MTM that comes up with excellent fits because it "shouldn't" cost above $x? AndrewRogers is a good guy, and before you get ahead of yourself, consider that he likely has more experience with MTM and bespoke than yourself. Good job on completely missing the point of his post.

 

[AndrewRogers]

Originally Posted by foulard

I find what you're saying incredible. How could you go to a tailor and not discuss with him whether he is doing a MTM for you or bespoke. Did you literally walk in and not talk?
eg You said "Make coat"
reply "OK"
If you had two fittings what did he do during those fittings? If its made to measure you would have generally thought that he would have measured you up, produced a coat and then given you one fitting to make final adjustments if any.

Okay, here's what Adamo did in that little shop off Norton St and up the back of the little shopping complex where he likely still has the glass door and big window. The little chair with the zebra pattern has probably gone because it was rather threadbare when I was there in 2008.

A Measure and ask for details
B Use a block to mark the cloth and adjust according to my measurements for the first fitting
C First fitting conducted on the coat and any adjustments marked out (this is with the body done up and one sleeve attached)
D Second fitting where we made sure everything was fine and I took delivery of the garment

Maybe you would say this exists in the twilight zone between true bespoke and true MTM. It's neither fish nor foul, but that should not matter if you're happy with the end result. Full bespoke does not necessarily guarantee a good outcome, just as MTM does not guarantee a poor outcome. The outcome depends on so many other things that it's pointless to get hung up on the process.

I have absolutely nothing against Adamo. He is tremendously good value for money but a bit slow. How do I know there was no pattern for me? Because I did actually ask and speak to him. I did not rule out the possibility of his producing a good enough product for me after hearing 'no pattern', which is why I did go ahead. I have used Adamo and plenty of other tailors. I have supplied plenty of Adamo's customers with cloth. I have supplied plenty of other tailors' customers with cloth, too.

What upsets me is how people are hating on this website and its products simply because it's MTM, despite the fact we have a member here who has a coat that looks great to my eye and with which he is happy. Isn't that enough? Isn't that the point of this place?

To apropos, thank you.

 

[foulard]

Originally Posted by AndrewRogers

Okay, here's what Adamo did in that little shop off Norton St and up the back of the little shopping complex where he likely still has the glass door and big window. The little chair with the zebra pattern has probably gone because it was rather threadbare when I was there in 2008.

A Measure and ask for details
B Use a block to mark the cloth and adjust according to my measurements for the first fitting
C First fitting conducted on the coat and any adjustments marked out (this is with the body done up and one sleeve attached)
D Second fitting where we made sure everything was fine and I took delivery of the garment

Maybe you would say this exists in the twilight zone between true bespoke and true MTM. It's neither fish nor foul, but that should not matter if you're happy with the end result. Full bespoke does not necessarily guarantee a good outcome, just as MTM does not guarantee a poor outcome. The outcome depends on so many other things that it's pointless to get hung up on the process.

I have absolutely nothing against Adamo. He is tremendously good value for money but a bit slow. How do I know there was no pattern for me? Because I did actually ask and speak to him. I did not rule out the possibility of his producing a good enough product for me after hearing 'no pattern', which is why I did go ahead. I have used Adamo and plenty of other tailors. I have supplied plenty of Adamo's customers with cloth. I have supplied plenty of other tailors' customers with cloth, too.

What upsets me is how people are hating on this website and its products simply because it's MTM, despite the fact we have a member here who has a coat that looks great to my eye and with which he is happy. Isn't that enough? Isn't that the point of this place?

To apropos, thank you.

I agree with you in that the end result is what counts. I didnt realise that that was the point you were trying to make. I stated earlier that some people may even fit exactly to a particular manufacturers RTW garments also.

Regarding timing, his going to have my suit ready next week which will mean that he will have taken no longer than 3 weeks from when I first walked in the door. He must have been busier when you saw him. And yes the little chair with the zebra pattern is still there.

In any event how was the coat that he made for you?

 

[AndrewRogers]

Originally Posted by foulard

I agree with you in that the end result is what counts. I didnt realise that that was the point you were trying to make. I stated earlier that some people may even fit exactly to a particular manufacturers RTW garments also.

Regarding timing, his going to have my suit ready next week which will mean that he will have taken no longer than 3 weeks from when I first walked in the door. He must have been busier when you saw him. And yes the little chair with the zebra pattern is still there.

In any event how was the coat that he made for you?

Good enough, and yes things must have changed or you've just got him at a very, very good time.

 

[foulard]

Originally Posted by apropos

His point was not to get too caught up in whether the process justifies the price, but to rather concern yourself with whether the outcome justifies the price.

What use is $500 bespoke that comes out terrible, and what purpose is served by shooting down MTM that comes up with excellent fits because it "shouldn't" cost above $x?

AndrewRogers is a good guy, and before you get ahead of yourself, consider that he likely has more experience with MTM and bespoke than yourself. Good job on completely missing the point of his post.

First of all I completely agree with your first point. BUT what you have pointed out I HAVE ALREADY STATED MYSELF IN THIS THREAD ALREADY:

I still believe that the rest of my comments are correct especially on a general basis and not taking into account that you can get a really **** bespoke suit made up and at the same time you may have a body shape and size which happens to be precisely fitted to a good quality RTW brand. In which case the whole argument is successfully rebutted.


So before you start having a go at someone at least read what they have previously said.

Regarding "getting ahead of myself", dont assume anything about what people know because you dont know anything about me at all. You can only judge and state your opinion on what people actually write and what they do.

Without telling you how to suck eggs, try to keep the personal side of things out of it and keep your emotions in check. Mr Rogers doesnt need you to defend him because I'm not attacking Mr Rogers. I simply have a different opinion which I think is valid since I'm currently in the process of being fitted by Mr Marone and therefore am in the position to comment based on the experience I am having.

Obviously someone who is selling the Minnis fabric he has listed must have taste and I was very interested to see what he had to say about Marone. He has now cleared that up. From what I consider to be bespoke. Marone is bespoke. that is the point of my interaction with him, irrespective of how you read it.

 

[foulard]

Originally Posted by AndrewRogers

Good enough, and yes things must have changed or you've just got him at a very, very good time.

You think he'd have a go making me something with some of those nice fabric's of yours?