Sour grapes - or, really, taking a stand

[Nobilis Animus]

You can start a new thread and post photos of the types of outfits you like.

I think I will at some point soon. I'm sure that I'm not the only one with interests like this.

 

[Knurt]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Sour Grapes the documentary. Highly disappointed.

If you're spending $400 on a tshirt, I don't know what to tell you.

I am not. But I have bought one or two that originally had such high priced.

 

[Knurt]

I think there are strong diminishing returns on casualwear if your aesthetic is heavily CM. A lot of CM casualwear is very limited because the parameters for design are so narrow. I feel like, even if you spend a fortune on casualwear at Cucinelli, you often still just end up looking like every guy in a v-neck sweater and chinos.

As breakaway mentioned above, if you look at other aesthetics, the returns are clearer. A Gap field jacket is probably something like $100. A Kapital ring coat is $450-ish, depending on where you purchase. The "returns" are mostly in the design. Not everyone is going to want to wear a Kapital ring coat, of course, but that's also true of suits and sport coats.

I always thought the idea with clothing was to achieve the best version of yourself. CM lives by that goal. Casualwear does too, but only partially so. The right pieces from Cucinello may make you look a little bit smarter than you otherwise would, but Kapital - as far as I know them - lives by another logic.

 

[JJ Katz]

For some people, formalwear is only needed for a purpose like funerals and weddings so spending over 100, 200 makes no sense to some of them. If they wear casual stuff, tees, sweats, denim on a regular basis they want the best of those items. What makes those items best for them may be construction, cut or design or something else. To suggest that these things aren’t worth over a certain price, but suits are, to a person who doesn’t need or care about suits is a bit ridiculous to me.

I agree that if someone seldom wears tailored clothing (for lack of a better term) they might not want to invest $$$ in it.
I am merely questioning whether someone who chooses to wear only sweats, tees and sneakers would derive any benefit from blowing $$$ to buy, say, Brunello Cucinelli sweats and Dior sneaker. Like DWW put it, there are very rapidly diminishing returns in very casual items. And to some extent, it kind of goes against the ethos fo the thing. US$ 500 'workwear' trousers like high-end jeans are not workwear; it is much more pretentious than someone wearing reproduction 1800 clothes, IMO.

These days you can spend a gazillion buying the most basic stuff; we're that rich. I question why anyone would want to but, hey, it's their money. There's a reason a Ferrari costs more than a Skoda (I drive a Skoda). Photocopier paper? Not so much.

 

[Despos]

Tailored clothing has a positive, appearance altering effect that casual clothes don't often, if ever can replicate. Can balance your proportions and overcome posture irregularities in a significant way.
That is, if your tailored clothes fit well.

 

[dieworkwear]

Like DWW put it, there are very rapidly diminishing returns in very casual items.

Don't think this is what I said? I said that casualwear has rapidly diminishing returns if your interests are only in CM. CM is very narrow, so there's only so much you can do in terms of design.

I don't know why CM guys view the world in terms of tailoring = good, casualwear = bad. In the world of menswear, you will find a lot of guys who are only into a specific thing. Some guys are only interested in Japanese denim; other guys are only into sneakers. But none of these guys look upon other niches as "bad."

If you only want to wear tailored clothing, you do you. But just because you like tailoring doesn't mean that casualwear is bad. It's more likely that you have limited experience or understanding in this area, which is natural since you don't have any interest in it.

 

[mak1277]

Don't think this is what I said? I said that casualwear has rapidly diminishing returns if your interests are only in CM. CM is very narrow, so there's only so much you can do in terms of design.

I don't know why CM guys view the world in terms of tailoring = good, casualwear = bad. In the world of menswear, you will find a lot of guys who are only into a specific thing. Some guys are only interested in Japanese denim; other guys are only into sneakers. But none of these guys look upon other niches as "bad."

If you only want to wear tailored clothing, you do you. But just because you like tailoring doesn't mean that casualwear is bad. It's more likely that you have limited experience or understanding in this area, which is natural since you don't have any interest in it.

Do you consider rugged ivy to be “CM casual”? Not sure that it matters what the definition is, but that seems to offer more variety than chinos and polos but would also appeal (I’d think) to many CM folks.

 

[dieworkwear]

Do you consider rugged ivy to be “CM casual”? Not sure that it matters what the definition is, but that seems to offer more variety than chinos and polos but would also appeal (I’d think) to many CM folks.

Yea, these categories aren't always so clear-cut.

In my head, I consider "Rugged Ivy" to be "classic." But it doesn't feel like the sort of thing discussed or worn on this side of the forum. If someone was wearing five-pocket cords with a collegiate sweatshirt and a Sierra Design mountain parka, I would consider that type of outfit "classic," but that feels more like an SWD outfit in terms of StyleForum culture.

 

[breakaway01]

I always thought the idea with clothing was to achieve the best version of yourself. CM lives by that goal. Casualwear does too, but only partially so. The right pieces from Cucinello may make you look a little bit smarter than you otherwise would, but Kapital - as far as I know them - lives by another logic.

so people who don’t wear CM are by definition not trying to achieve the “best version” of themselves? And people who wear Kapital are not trying to seem smart? Or people who wear Cucinelli are? This logic is really bizarre TBH.

 

[Knurt]

so people who don’t wear CM are by definition not trying to achieve the “best version” of themselves? And people who wear Kapital are not trying to seem smart? Or people who wear Cucinelli are? This logic is really bizarre TBH.

sorry if I was unclear. What I meant was similar to Despos above, «balancing out proportions» etc. Som casualwear seem to me to introduce another esthetic that may hide the human body. Which is fine by me, but not for me.

 

[Chaconne]

I agree that if someone seldom wears tailored clothing (for lack of a better term) they might not want to invest $$$ in it.
I am merely questioning whether someone who chooses to wear only sweats, tees and sneakers would derive any benefit from blowing $$$ to buy, say, Brunello Cucinelli sweats and Dior sneaker. Like DWW put it, there are very rapidly diminishing returns in very casual items. And to some extent, it kind of goes against the ethos fo the thing. US$ 500 'workwear' trousers like high-end jeans are not workwear; it is much more pretentious than someone wearing reproduction 1800 clothes, IMO.

These days you can spend a gazillion buying the most basic stuff; we're that rich. I question why anyone would want to but, hey, it's their money. There's a reason a Ferrari costs more than a Skoda (I drive a Skoda). Photocopier paper? Not so much.

As Derek already implied, I think, is that if you aren’t interested in casual/streetwear and see a guy in track pants and a tee it might seem basic or even slovenly to you but it might not to me because that’s the kind of stuff I’m interested in. I’m also interested in distinctions between formalwear but that’s just me being a weird clothing nerd who’s interested in everything. Most people only notice distinctions between stuff that interests them.

 

[breakaway01]

sorry if I was unclear. What I meant was similar to Despos above, «balancing out proportions» etc. Som casualwear seem to me to introduce another esthetic that may hide the human body. Which is fine by me, but not for me.

A skilled dresser knows how to dress to bring out the better qualities of their build. Personally I think that casual wear can do this as well as tailored clothing, but it’s more difficult IMO to do well, as the conventions of tailored clothing are so well established and generally understood by most people.

 

[dauster]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Sour Grapes the documentary. Highly disappointed.

If you're spending $400 on a tshirt, I don't know what to tell you.

it's a great documentary

 

[Phileas Fogg]

it's a great documentary

Hollywood **** heads will fall for almost anything.

 

[dauster]

Hollywood **** heads will fall for almost anything.

I remember this alcoholic director that always wore shades. he was so delusional that he would not believe the fraud even after it happened