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Sour grapes - or, really, taking a stand

Knurt

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During the last four years I have taken a belated interest in clothing. Initiated by a weight loss that more or less left my old wardrobe useless, I had to source new clothes rather rapidly, and found through eBay, Internet sales and sales in general that I could collect a far better wardrobe for far less money than I had previously amassed. I started off with sport coats, suits and formalware in general, but as this coincided with the growing interest in casual clothing of good quality - and I had not been completely braindead prior to this my new interest - I quickly caught on with that trend too. Actually, reflecting both my background and the flexibility I have in my workplace, I was quite excited about improving my casual wardrobe. And here is the happy preliminary ending: I like the look of myself in my formalwear much better than in my excellent casualwear. The cuts, the colours, the quality of cloth, combine into a package that that supports my ego in a relaxing way. I am indeed happy with most of my casual clothing, but I have to ask: is it worth the money and effort? How much better do I look in a full price $400 t-shirt/sweatshirt/sweater than one at a fourth of the value? And am I able to create an ensamble - a full costume - that create an overall effect that signals anything else than casualness? What do the elaborate and expensive clothes add? I look at pictures here and elsewhere and I do see intelligent and knowledgable people not only making an effort, but also succeeding of achieving something of note. Yet I question the regularity with which we succeed, and if high quality casual clothing really is worth the effort as an alternative to the mote traditional formalwear. Yes, the argument against what I am stating here is that I am comparing apples and pears, and that is true to some extent. But I am coming out on the side of choosing some version of formalwear whenever the occasion permits it.
 
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Phileas Fogg

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You should buy what you can afford. To you, $400 is expensive for a sweater. To someone else, it’s cheap.

assuming, and it’s a big assumption, that price equals quality, the quality item will last longer if properly cared for, will likely drape or fit better as anyone who has ever donned a thick Scottish cashmere sweater vs. a department store house brand.
 

Duke Santos

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Which for me, is being moth vigilant...
Goddam those things.
I have a fluorescent bug zapper sitting on one of my garment racks, and a bunch of those pheromone glue traps scattered about in closets.

I desperately need to up my game here. I've always relied on some cedar blocks in the knitwear drawer, cedar hangers in the closet and cedar balls in the suit/overcoat bags. I think I've been very lucky (though I don't know how bad the moth situation is in Chicago....have heard it's at Defcon 1 in the UK).
 

Nobilis Animus

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I desperately need to up my game here. I've always relied on some cedar blocks in the knitwear drawer, cedar hangers in the closet and cedar balls in the suit/overcoat bags. I think I've been very lucky (though I don't know how bad the moth situation is in Chicago....have heard it's at Defcon 1 in the UK).

I'm using lavender and so far so good, but every time I think about moths I get antsy again and consider buying a bunch of other methods.
 

breakaway01

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I find it easier to put together a coherent ‘formal’/CM outfit. The guidelines for what works together are simpler and a few versatile items (blue OCBD, navy sportcoat, mid-grey trousers) go a long way.
“Casual” on the other hand encompasses a much larger range, and items that work with one look might not work with another. Check out the workwear looks at Standard and Strange versus the looks at De Bonne Facture as a couple of examples.
So maybe if you think “casual” means a hoodie and jeans then yes, maybe a $400 hoodie doesn’t get you that much more than a $125 hoodie. But there are other kinds of casual aesthetics where I do think the value proposition is clearer.
 

JJ Katz

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@Knurt I hear you. It's something that seems like a bit of an issue, the intersection of a growing body of fellows interested in quality, elegant clothes and, on the other hand, the much-commented acceleration in "informality".

"Classic", tailored, more constructed and formal clothes/fabrics clearly lend themselves to greater gradations of quality not least because of the work that goes into, say, a suit or a good tie.

Conversely, while fabric quality and even stitching can vary a lot in a jumper or chinos, I do think here are more rapidly diminishing returns, there.

I think a lot of chaps who like nice clothes do tend to direct the spend towards the more formal/tailored items and buy decent but not top-of-the-line clobber when it comes to casual basics.

Personally, when I'm wearing a t-shirt, or sneakers or basic chinos it usually ahs a purpose: I am engaging on more strenuous, physical activities. The last thing I want to have to worry about is whether I will ruin my tees of sneakers that cost a fortune.
 

Knurt

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Well put. While the emerging casual agenda is an emerging and evolving part of clothing, formalwear have over the years developed an understanding of style, quality and proportion - one that most who are into clothing know, sense or appreciate - which to some extent is felt once one dresses in these kind of clothes. Yes, I do care for my casualness. I see me in the mirrors in the gym, in shopwindows, mirrors innelevators, and am not immune to how I look, nor unprepared. But as much as I enjoy quality casual clothes, and I do, the difference between as great suit or sportcoat and their lesser brethren is much greater than between different gradients of casual clothes. Bought myself a wonderful tie today that I look forward to wear when we return to normality.
 

Chaconne

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@Knurt I hear you. It's something that seems like a bit of an issue, the intersection of a growing body of fellows interested in quality, elegant clothes and, on the other hand, the much-commented acceleration in "informality".

"Classic", tailored, more constructed and formal clothes/fabrics clearly lend themselves to greater gradations of quality not least because of the work that goes into, say, a suit or a good tie.

Conversely, while fabric quality and even stitching can vary a lot in a jumper or chinos, I do think here are more rapidly diminishing returns, there.

I think a lot of chaps who like nice clothes do tend to direct the spend towards the more formal/tailored items and buy decent but not top-of-the-line clobber when it comes to casual basics.

Personally, when I'm wearing a t-shirt, or sneakers or basic chinos it usually ahs a purpose: I am engaging on more strenuous, physical activities. The last thing I want to have to worry about is whether I will ruin my tees of sneakers that cost a fortune.
@Knurt I hear you. It's something that seems like a bit of an issue, the intersection of a growing body of fellows interested in quality, elegant clothes and, on the other hand, the much-commented acceleration in "informality".

"Classic", tailored, more constructed and formal clothes/fabrics clearly lend themselves to greater gradations of quality not least because of the work that goes into, say, a suit or a good tie.

Conversely, while fabric quality and even stitching can vary a lot in a jumper or chinos, I do think here are more rapidly diminishing returns, there.

I think a lot of chaps who like nice clothes do tend to direct the spend towards the more formal/tailored items and buy decent but not top-of-the-line clobber when it comes to casual basics.

Personally, when I'm wearing a t-shirt, or sneakers or basic chinos it usually ahs a purpose: I am engaging on more strenuous, physical activities. The last thing I want to have to worry about is whether I will ruin my tees of sneakers that cost a fortune.
For some people, formalwear is only needed for a purpose like funerals and weddings so spending over 100, 200 makes no sense to some of them. If they wear casual stuff, tees, sweats, denim on a regular basis they want the best of those items. What makes those items best for them may be construction, cut or design or something else. To suggest that these things aren’t worth over a certain price, but suits are, to a person who doesn’t need or care about suits is a bit ridiculous to me.
 

dieworkwear

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I think there are strong diminishing returns on casualwear if your aesthetic is heavily CM. A lot of CM casualwear is very limited because the parameters for design are so narrow. I feel like, even if you spend a fortune on casualwear at Cucinelli, you often still just end up looking like every guy in a v-neck sweater and chinos.

As breakaway mentioned above, if you look at other aesthetics, the returns are clearer. A Gap field jacket is probably something like $100. A Kapital ring coat is $450-ish, depending on where you purchase. The "returns" are mostly in the design. Not everyone is going to want to wear a Kapital ring coat, of course, but that's also true of suits and sport coats.
 

Nobilis Animus

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But isn't it a bit of a misnomer to interpret CM as inherently limiting in terms of everyday clothing? Fashions evolve, and I don't see why certain modern designs or artistically-cut coats aren't also considered part of the aesthetic. People on other forums complain all the time about women's clothing being more varied and flexible. I think that's because we artificially restrict what we'll wear as men.

As a simple example: Classic pieces could be re-interpreted in new fabrics. Plenty of men here would wear a silk-blend jacket for summer, but what about a pure silk jacquard evening jacket? A suede safari jacket (not even that out-there)? Fur trimmed anything?

Nothing is worth the price if it isn't useful or pleasurable for one's lifestyle. The issue is when people, who have no need of tailored clothes and don't buy them, turn around and spout off about how they think designer clothes or bespoke suits are ridiculous. They are worth the money, just not worth their money.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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But isn't it a bit of a misnomer to interpret CM as inherently limiting in terms of everyday clothing? Fashions evolve, and I don't see why certain modern designs or artistically-cut coats aren't also considered part of the aesthetic. People on other forums complain all the time about women's clothing being more varied and flexible. I think that's because we artificially restrict what we'll wear as men.

As a simple example: Classic pieces could be re-interpreted in new fabrics. Plenty of men here would wear a silk-blend jacket for summer, but what about a pure silk jacquard evening jacket? A suede safari jacket (not even that out-there)? Fur trimmed anything?

Nothing is worth the price if it isn't useful or pleasurable for one's lifestyle. The issue is when people, who have no need of tailored clothes and don't buy them, turn around and spout off about how they think designer clothes or bespoke suits are ridiculous. They are worth the money, just not worth their money.

I have no problem with more creatively designed clothes, but that's not how the term CM is used on this forum. The term CM used to be MC on here. That's because CM used to be called Men's Clothing (MC). It's just a reference to the types of styles discussed on this side of the forum.

CM/ MC has a specific look. SWD has a broader range of looks, but also still mostly revolve around some common themes. If someone were to post Superdry outfits on SWD, they would probably be met with the same cold reception.
 

Nobilis Animus

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I have no problem with more creatively designed clothes, but that's not how the term CM is used on this forum. The term CM used to be MC on here. That's because CM used to be called Men's Clothing (MC). It's just a reference to the types of styles discussed on this side of the forum.

CM/ MC has a specific look. SWD has a broader range of looks, but also still mostly revolve around some common themes. If someone were to post Superdry outfits on SWD, they would probably be met with the same cold reception.

I agree, but maybe the interpretation of CM is due for an overhaul in that case. It's a bit rich for the forum to criticize some vintage outfits, for example, as being costumey if people never add anything new to their own wardrobes. I think classic suits can coexist with other creations, and they have in the past. The 70s are a trend right now, so maybe some flamboyance would be a good thing.
 

dieworkwear

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I agree, but maybe the interpretation of CM is due for an overhaul in that case. It's a bit rich for the forum to criticize some vintage outfits, for example, as being costumey if people never add anything new to their own wardrobes. I think classic suits can coexist with other creations, and they have in the past. The 70s are a trend right now, so maybe some flamboyance would be a good thing.

You can start a new thread and post photos of the types of outfits you like.
 

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