Question for high end audio people

[hopkins_student]

Say you have a 120 W/Ch Sony ES receiver and a 5.1 setup with B&W 600 series speakers (very good but far from the B&W top end). How much better off would a person be with a dedicated amplifier in place at the same power output if not even slightly less power output?

Thanks, HS.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by hopkins_student

Say you have a 120 W/Ch Sony ES receiver and a 5.1 setup with B&W 600 series speakers (very good but far from the B&W top end). How much better off would a person be with a dedicated amplifier in place at the same power output if not even slightly less power output?

Thanks, HS.

I've never listened to an ES, but that's their high-end line, right? I've read that it's respectable. If you're not straining it, I wouldn't bother with an upgrade. I listened to the 600s and I honestly wasn't a huge fan. Instead, I would upgrade speakers before upgrading the amp. You'll get more out of it for the same dollars spent. I'm stating the obvious, but high-end amps are not cheap. Put that towards good speakers and you'll be in heaven. Then upgrade the amp. Unless of course there is something particularly displeasing to you about the ES...

 

[Concordia]

Try it at a dealer if you can. I've found some situations where separating the two functions (in my case, powering a NAIM preamp from a separate Hi-Cap rather than the amp's power supply) worked small miracles on the clarity and intelligibility of the music. But that might not work for you.

 

[A Y]

I'd also try to audition a new amp before buying to see if it makes a big difference in your system. If I had to guess, I think you'll get a bigger bang for the buck with new speakers.

--Andre

 

[hopkins_student]

I'm a pretty committed B&W owner, so my next step up for their speakers would be about $7,000, which I won't have to put into speakers for another ten years. An amp could be had for about $1-2k depending on how much power I want out of it. I think the best idea is probably to give an amp a listen.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by hopkins_student

I'm a pretty committed B&W owner, so my next step up for their speakers would be about $7,000, which I won't have to put into speakers for another ten years. An amp could be had for about $1-2k depending on how much power I want out of it. I think the best idea is probably to give an amp a listen.

There are SOOOOO many good speaker choices out there. Why are you so committed to one company's line of speakers? For 2k you can get some great speakers that imo would be far superior to the 600s. By comparison, I don't think that spending 1k on an amp will net you all that much over the ES. I think the 800D is a great speaker, but the 600s are nothing like it and in between there are lots of speakers from different makers that have a lot to offer. Anyway, you're gonna do what you're gonna do, but make sure to do a home audition, if possible. Also be wary of hearing differences that aren't there. Speakers are usually a better way to go, but it's your money.

Btw, do you have any idea of what you want out of the amp? Or is it just something you think you should buy?

 

[Mr. Checks]

Originally Posted by hopkins_student

Say you have a 120 W/Ch Sony ES receiver and a 5.1 setup with B&W 600 series speakers (very good but far from the B&W top end). How much better off would a person be with a dedicated amplifier in place at the same power output if not even slightly less power output?

Thanks, HS.

Since others brought up buying speakers instead, I'll start there.

It kind of depends on how you listen. If you're listening for the full sweep of an orchestral passage, you might want beefier speakers. If you're listening for the subtle bowing of the Bach cello suites, a better amp.

I have a basic 5-channel system that I watch for movies, but my serious listening is on a 2-channel system, so I really don't have a ton of advice on 5-channel amps. I'd try to find an Arcam to listen to as I really like that brand.

As to your particular question about wattage: strangely enough, a watt on, say, a Pioneer receiver is not (in real world use) the same as a watt on, say, a Cary Rocket 88. On an engineering sheet yes, with music, no. Has to do with heat sinks, ability to drive speakers as the load varies, lots of other stuff.

If you're concerned about going from, like, a 150 wpc Sony to a 120 wpc amp, don't worry, as there is sonically no difference that we could tell (this is because each 3 decibel increase in sound requires a doubling of amp power, therefore a 30 wpc difference between those two amp would be meaningless on real music).

As to wattage, keep in mind that your neighbors start complaining at about 1 or 2 watts (87-93 decibels with average speakers).

All of this is a summary that engineers will pick apart, but basically true.

Generically, on a 2-channel system, I'd upgrade the source, then the amp/preamp, and only last the speakers. Most people would do the opposite.

 

[T4phage]

Some considerations since you mention you have a 5.1 setup and said that you want to keep your speakers:
How are you going to wire the new amp into your currently exisiting setup? (eg: the front left and right speakers to the new amp, and the pre out for the left& right from the ES amp to the aux input of the new amp when you watch a dvd). In such a case, what source will you be feeding the new amp? A dedicated cd player? If you are using a dvd player as your cd spinner are you going to watch a movie (in 5.1 through your ES amp) and music (though your new amp using the surround amp as a pre)? I wouldn't do it that way.

 

[Renault78law]

I agree with the others, at this point, you'd see much more bang for your buck in a speaker upgrade.

 

[migo]

craigslist!! I got these pioneers for $60!! (repost from "I just bought a..." thread):

 

[A Y]

These aren't the Pioneer speakers you're looking for.

These are:

http://www.tadhomeaudio.com/home.html

--Andre

 

[Artisan Fan]

Originally Posted by hopkins_student

I'm a pretty committed B&W owner, so my next step up for their speakers would be about $7,000, which I won't have to put into speakers for another ten years. An amp could be had for about $1-2k depending on how much power I want out of it. I think the best idea is probably to give an amp a listen.

I do have one suggestion. Upgrade the 600s to the new 685s for small money and get a big jump in sonics. These new 685s are incredible value for dollar.

 

[Artisan Fan]

The new ES receivers can sound pretty good. Which model do you have?

 

[migo]

Andre...where can i find for $60?

 

[eg1]

Originally Posted by Andre Yew

These aren't the Pioneer speakers you're looking for.

These are:

http://www.tadhomeaudio.com/home.html

--Andre

Is that Obi-wan I'm hearing?