Protein Shake WITHOUT working out?

[why]

Actually, around 70-80% of excess protein is stored as fat.

Westerterp, KR (2004) Diet induced thermogenesis, Nutrition & Metabolism 2004, 1:5

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by why

Actually, around 70-80% of excess protein is stored as fat.

Westerterp, KR (2004) Diet induced thermogenesis, Nutrition & Metabolism 2004, 1:5

Where? I took a look and couldn't find what you mentioned:
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/5

On another note, from the study:

Results
Most studies measure diet-induced thermogenesis as the increase in energy expenditure above basal metabolic rate. Generally, the hierarchy in macronutrient oxidation in the postprandial state is reflected similarly in diet-induced thermogenesis, with the sequence alcohol, protein, carbohydrate, and fat. A mixed diet consumed at energy balance results in a diet induced energy expenditure of 5 to 15 % of daily energy expenditure. Values are higher at a relatively high protein and alcohol consumption and lower at a high fat consumption. Protein induced thermogenesis has an important effect on satiety.

In conclusion, the main determinants of diet-induced thermogenesis are the energy content and the protein- and alcohol fraction of the diet. Protein plays a key role in body weight regulation through satiety related to diet-induced thermogenesis.

Conne, take note: the more you drink, the more calorie you can eat. Or something like that.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by whacked

Where? I took a look and couldn't find what you mentioned:
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/5

Because you didn't read correctly.

 

[gvibes]

Originally Posted by why

Because you didn't read correctly.
I have no dog in this fight, but you could at least not be a asshole and have the common courtesy to point what in the article supports your statement. Is the following it?

Reported DIT values for separate nutrients are ... 20 to 30% for protein

 

[whacked]

^ Weird if that's what he means. Diet-induced thermogenesis (DIT), in my understanding, mostly covers thermic effect of foods; DIT for protein does not at all acount for what's needed for other use of protein: muscle rebuilding etc.

 

[scugger]

Originally Posted by why

Actually, around 70-80% of excess protein is stored as fat.

Westerterp, KR (2004) Diet induced thermogenesis, Nutrition & Metabolism 2004, 1:5


From this article:

Theoretically, based on the amount of ATP required for the initial steps of metabolism and storage, the DIT is different for each nutrient. Reported DIT values for separate nutrients are 0 to 3% for fat, 5 to 10% for carbohydrate, 20 to 30% for protein [16], and 10 to 30% for alcohol [6]. In healthy subjects with a mixed diet, DIT represents about 10% of the total amount of energy ingested over 24 h. When a subject is in energy balance, where intake equals expenditure, DIT is 10% of daily energy expenditure.​

I assume you got the values of 70% to 80% by taking 100 and subtracting 20% to 30%. The 20% to 30% just means that your body uses 20% to 30% of the calories present in the protein you ate in order to digest it. For example if you ate 25g of protein (100 calories) then your body would expend 20 to 30 calories digesting that protein.

This does not necessarily mean that the 70 to 80 remaining calories are stored as fat. Some of this protein goes to replenish the protein stores in your body, some of the protein is converted into glycogen (essentially carbs) to use as energy, some of the protein is excreted through your urine, and finally some of the protein is stored as fat.

Your body gives preference to replenishing its protein stores and using protein as energy before it stores it as fat. So unless you are consuming a great deal of protein at one time (maybe 50+ grams or more), consuming protein shakes on off days is pretty much a non issue, especially if you are recovering from a workout from a day or two before.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by scugger

This does not necessarily mean that the 70 to 80 remaining calories are stored as fat. Some of this protein goes to replenish the protein stores in your body, some of the protein is converted into glycogen (essentially carbs) to use as energy, some of the protein is excreted through your urine, and finally some of the protein is stored as fat. Your body gives preference to replenishing its protein stores and using protein as energy before it stores it as fat. So unless you are consuming a great deal of protein at one time (maybe 50+ grams or more), consuming protein shakes on off days is pretty much a non issue, especially if you are recovering from a workout from a day or two before.
I said excess protein for a reason. Protein is also not heavily excreted from the body in healthy individuals. Protein is also never stored as glycogen, but must first be broken down into glucose which then can be stored as glycogen. I get what you're saying, though. I could've done myself a service by responding to this quote:

Originally Posted by scugger

By the time it reaches that point you've already spent more than half the calories that were originally in the protein you consumed. So in terms of fat gain it is not a one to one ratio of calories consumed from protein to calories stored as fat.

Originally Posted by gvibes

I have no dog in this fight, but you could at least not be a asshole and have the common courtesy to point what in the article supports your statement. Is the following it?
I'm not trying to be an asshole, I just want people to read what I wrote instead of going off on tangents and racing to be the first person to start an online argument.

 

[ken]

Originally Posted by why

I'm not trying to be an asshole, I just want people to read what I wrote instead of going off on tangents and racing to be the first person to start an online argument.

I don't think paraplegics try to be paraplegics, either.

you wrote

Actually, around 70-80% of excess protein is stored as fat.

and then you cited an article that has absolutely nothing to do with the statement. The article says nothing of excess protein being stored as fat.

Are you in college? You sound like you've got millions of facts in your head but not enough things to prove with them. That's how I was in college.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by ken

and then you cited an article that has absolutely nothing to do with the statement. The article says nothing of excess protein being stored as fat.

It has everything to do with it. Diet-induced thermogenesis is the number of calories required to metabolize macronutrients. If 100 calories of protein are consumed, 20-30% of those calories from the 100 consumed are used to metabolize the protein, leaving 70-80% storable as fat.

No, I'm not in college. I'm a bum on the street corner.

 

[ken]

Originally Posted by why

It has everything to do with it. Diet-induced thermogenesis is the number of calories required to metabolize macronutrients. If 100 calories of protein are consumed, 20-30% of those calories from the 100 consumed are used to metabolize the protein, leaving 70-80% storable as fat.

No, I'm not in college. I'm a bum on the street corner.

Right, the number of calories required to use the macronutrients. Fortunately, protein is used for other things in the body (like building muscle) so the difference isn't all stored as fat.

(100 calories of protein) - (25 calories lost to DIT) - (x calories used to repair muscle) - (x calories excreted as waste) - (x calories of whatever else happens to protein in the body) = (calories left to store as fat)

 

[gvibes]

Originally Posted by why

It has everything to do with it. Diet-induced thermogenesis is the number of calories required to metabolize macronutrients. If 100 calories of protein are consumed, 20-30% of those calories from the 100 consumed are used to metabolize the protein, leaving 70-80% storable as fat.

No, I'm not in college. I'm a bum on the street corner.
Note - you said "storable" here, not stored. Looks like you're coming around. Compare your statement here to the statement that everything was arguing against.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by ken

Right, the number of calories required to use the macronutrients. Fortunately, protein is used for other things in the body (like building muscle) so the difference isn't all stored as fat.
Which is why I said excess protein. Besides, this was asked and answered posts ago when I responded to scugger who seems to be the only person who understands what I'm speaking of.

Originally Posted by gvibes

Note - you said "storable" here, not stored. Looks like you're coming around. Compare your statement here to the statement that everything was arguing against.
You're arguing against a totally different subject (red herring). I said excess protein, not all. I would define excess protein as that which is not needed.

 

[ken]

Originally Posted by why

Actually, around 70-80% of excess protein is stored as fat.

Originally Posted by why

If 100 calories of protein are consumed, 20-30% of those calories from the 100 consumed are used to metabolize the protein, leaving 70-80% storable as fat.

Originally Posted by why

I said excess protein, not all. I would define excess protein as that which is not needed.

Again, bass-ackward logic.

Your statements:
The body needs 25% of protein consumed to metabolize that protein.
Protein that is not needed is called Excess Protein.

Your conclusion:
75% of Excess Protein is stored (or storable, whatever) as fat.

That article says absolutely, positively, 100%-darn-mudder-friggin'-lutely nothing to imply your conclusion.

I'm not saying it's an incorrect statement (although it is... I don't know anybody who stores all the protein they eat as fat). I AM saying that you need to read some Plato, maybe, and stop making **** up.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by ken

Your statements:
The body needs 25% of protein consumed to metabolize that protein.
Protein that is not needed is called Excess Protein.

Your conclusion:
75% of Excess Protein is stored (or storable, whatever) as fat.

Storable -- I used the word for a reason.

That article says absolutely, positively, 100%-darn-mudder-friggin'-lutely nothing to imply your conclusion.

Of course it does. The entire article is about the calories used to metabolize different macronutrients. If 100 calories of excess protein are consumed, 70-80 will be stored as fat. Likewise, 95 or so calories from excesscarbohydrates would be stored as fat if 100 calories were consumed.

Just think about it for a bit and take the information in before replying.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by why

Of course it does. The entire article is about the calories used to metabolize different macronutrients. If 100 calories of excess protein are consumed, 70-80 will be stored as fat. Likewise, 95 or so calories from excesscarbohydrates would be stored as fat if 100 calories were consumed.

Righttt. As if anywhere in the article did the author state or imply anything close to the latter part of your statement.

And "storable as fat" is a misleading statement; the calories not utilized in DIT are temporarily saved for the body's other energy needs: walking, exercising etc. Only very much later, if at all it is converted into actual body fat (layman's term: belly fat or whatever) as we know it.