Pot-Boiling: What Good Authors Do To Pay Their Bills

[RJman]

Originally Posted by rach2jlc

After reading King's "On Writing," I developed a new appreciation for him. And, for full disclosure, I'm the biggest reading snob on earth, so I didnt' read a King novel until my early 20's. Nevertheless, it's my opinion that in a hundred years he'll be something like the Dumas of the 20th and 21st centuries.

+1. I think King knows what sells and is brilliantly able to exploit it. I think some of his stuff has been vastly improved in film adaptation, like The Shining, but a novel like "The Dead Zone" was surprisingly good.

 

[countdemoney]

Originally Posted by rach2jlc

This is true. I don't share this much (or at ALL in public, usually), but I've been working with an agent over the past year or so on trying to sell some fiction projects and they really push a series or a "brand" type idea.

I've never been much on this and, along with a lot of other issues, have realized how tough it is to get published reputably as a first-time author.

A lot of publishers want a pitch for a SECOND or THIRD book that could follow up the first, even when you are just shopping around the first. With the cost of publishing and the lack of guaranteed returns, they really want a "sure" thing or a sure audience for a product.

It makes it much more lucrative, so yes. In some conglomerates, I think they can also scrounge money from other divisions if there is an opportunity for a play in their space (tv, etc).

I read way too much what I would describe as trash sci-fi and fantasy (decent, but disposable). The trend there is very much about a brand or franchise that can then go into other media where it will have a built in fanbase. Harry Potter lite.

There are several examples - Terry Goodkind's sword of truth series (legend of the seeker tv show), Jim Butcher's Dresden Files novels (short lived tv show, possible movie) and Charlaine Harris Dead before Dark (HBO's True Blood) etc.

I believe that Goodkind used his sword of truth popularity and money to write something closer to literature and more of a project from the heart. Butcher did that as well, launching a fantasy franchise based on the success of Dresden files.

One of the more interesting approaches that I've seen taken is that by John Scalzi who used his blog to launch two previously unpublished books. Scalzi received some money releasing them as web books and then enough interest got it published, published. Scalzi has name recognition and lots of popularity. Not everyone can do what he did.

It's easy for me to say, but I would look at not worrying about novel #1. If you're a committed writer, stop stressing, let your agent work and start on the next book. Your output is somewhat fixed as an author. Having more product available for you to sell or repurpose and then sell is a good thing. You might consider it a bit of a waste to start writing without a contract, but if you do make it, you can always suspend work on your passion to crank out the next installment of The Connie Chronicles - an urban kunk novel. As I'm writing, I recall that Iain Banks first two SF novels were rejected, but then later published after his "debut" book did well.

You can also consider looking at other outlets for your ideas and building your name:
articles and essays in the news papers and magazines
Short plays for local theater
web shorts with actor friends
stories as email or text exchanges

The goal isn't to become the da vinci of the web, or the next tom stoppard, but to get enough recognition that someone would trust your work, or thinks your name would move enough books.

Sorry to ramble, but it's a fascinating challenge.

 

[rach2jlc]

Originally Posted by countdemoney

It makes it much more lucrative, so yes. In some conglomerates, I think they can also scrounge money from other divisions if there is an opportunity for a play in their space (tv, etc). I read way too much what I would describe as trash sci-fi and fantasy (decent, but disposable). The trend there is very much about a brand or franchise that can then go into other media where it will have a built in fanbase. Harry Potter lite. There are several examples - Terry Goodkind's sword of truth series (legend of the seeker tv show), Jim Butcher's Dresden Files novels (short lived tv show, possible movie) and Charlaine Harris Dead before Dark (HBO's True Blood) etc. I believe that Goodkind used his sword of truth popularity and money to write something closer to literature and more of a project from the heart. Butcher did that as well, launching a fantasy franchise based on the success of Dresden files. One of the more interesting approaches that I've seen taken is that by John Scalzi who used his blog to launch two previously unpublished books. Scalzi received some money releasing them as web books and then enough interest got it published, published. Scalzi has name recognition and lots of popularity. Not everyone can do what he did. It's easy for me to say, but I would look at not worrying about novel #1. If you're a committed writer, stop stressing, let your agent work and start on the next book. Your output is somewhat fixed as an author. Having more product available for you to sell or repurpose and then sell is a good thing. You might consider it a bit of a waste to start writing without a contract, but if you do make it, you can always suspend work on your passion to crank out the next installment of The Connie Chronicles - an urban kunk novel. As I'm writing, I recall that Iain Banks first two SF novels were rejected, but then later published after his "debut" book did well. You can also consider looking at other outlets for your ideas and building your name: articles and essays in the news papers and magazines Short plays for local theater web shorts with actor friends stories as email or text exchanges The goal isn't to become the da vinci of the web, or the next tom stoppard, but to get enough recognition that someone would trust your work, or thinks your name would move enough books. Sorry to ramble, but it's a fascinating challenge.
Thanks, count, and I agree with pretty much all of this. Ideally, I would love to put it out of my head and move on to another project. Psychologically, though, it's been tougher to do that. Because the first one hasn't moved, and seems about dead at this point (with no set of criticisms that were in any way useful... half the editors said one thing, half said the other, and all contradicted each other), it's been really tough for me to "move on" and think about the next project with a clean slate. I'm still not sure what (if anything) was "wrong" with the first one or how to improve much moving into the second. Nevertheless, it's been a major learning process. Frustrating at times, but interesting. Luckily, I have another day job, so I'm not pacing the floor waiting! I've also learned that there is a lot more involved in getting a novel published by a large publisher than whether or not the book is considered "good." How similar books in the genre have sold in the past, name recognition, time of year, how well it fits into pre-established genres/molds, etc. all play a big part.

 

[HORNS]

I wish I could read more books, and am amazed at the breadth of not only what you guys have read, but are very familiar with the works of many authors. I don't think I read a novel between the age of 22 to 34-35.

 

[blackplatano]

Originally Posted by Manton

If you are trying to imply that I claim or aspire to be some kind of socialite, then epic fail. I realize that you and so many others here really hate me, but I think there is plenty of real material to work with. No need to make **** up.

Not to pick on you Manton, but you seem to be a little too sensitive to critique and paranoid about enemies. I've noticed this about you. You might want to work on that IRL.

 

[HORNS]

Epic WIN on the tags.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by blackplatano

Not to pick on you Manton, but you seem to be a little too sensitive to critique and paranoid about enemies. I've noticed this about you. You might want to work on that IRL.

I've noticed that you are possibly the stupidest America-hating leftist on this board, and also one of the very nastiest people overall. You might want to work on that.

 

[blackplatano]

Originally Posted by Manton

I've noticed that you are possibly the stupidest America-hating leftist on this board, and also one of the very nastiest people overall. You might want to work on that.



Classy.


I give you some snark free advice based on reading your countless posts and you respond by been an absolute asshole.

Yes, I'm the nasty one.

 

[DocHolliday]

No mention of Graham Greene and his "entertainments"? I've always liked that description.

 

[rach2jlc]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

No mention of Graham Greene and his "entertainments"? I've always liked that description.
"I think we've ALL seen Bonanza!" (lame movie reference)

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by blackplatano

Classy.


I give you some snark free advice based on reading your countless posts and you respond by been an absolute asshole.

Yes, I'm the nasty one.

Yes, I'm sure it was well intentioned.

Look, if you go around throwing random, unprovoked punches, you are likely to get hit back eventually. If you didn't know that already, then let this serve as a valuable lesson.

 

[Dakota rube]

Stuart Woods was once a good novelist.

 

[blackplatano]

Originally Posted by Manton

Yes, I'm sure it was well intentioned.

Look, if you go around throwing random, unprovoked punches, you are likely to get hit back eventually. If you didn't know that already, then let this serve as a valuable lesson.


I really have nothing against you. In fact, I have your book and have followed some of your threads. Why? Because I know the CE reduces otherwise reasonable men to partisan assholes. So I choose to leave everything that happens in CE in CE. That means you, Matt, Pio and other conservatives are not on some sort of "shitlist" I keep. Obviously it doesn't go both ways, something I noticed with pio and now with you.
Your comment really does not affect me at all, since only sensitive little bitches will care what random men say about them on the Internet. However, I challenge you to produce some sort of evidence that I'm the "stupidest America-hating leftist on this board, and also one of the very nastiest people overall". I would like to see a leftist anti-American post of mine that shows the extent of my nastiness and stupidity. I'm waiting.

In regard to your tendency to think everyone hates you, it is something that's easy to notice and is displayed right here in this thread. The fact that you would take Why's ambiguous comment so negatively and calling me what I believe you think is the worse thing you could have called me shows your paranoia. I guess that's what happens when you read too much Machiavelli. Not everyone is out to get you and that's what you have to realize, which my good willed advice did not accomplish.

 

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Douglas

Somewhat similar are movie directors who make popcorn to fill theaters in between their films of more serious depth and emotional weight. A great example is Michael Bay, who sprinkles in such popular favorites as Bad Boys, The Rock, and Armageddon to keep him in hookers and blow while saving his true talents for such works of great filmmaking genius such as Transformers, Pearl Harbor, and Transformers II - Revenge of the Fallen.

I'm just quoting this post because 1) it's brilliant, and b) it hasn't been quoted today.

...

moving on now. I used to kinda-sorta pride myself on, you know, reading some good authors, and I knew that authors will write under pseudonyms to avoid diluting their 'name', but this thread has really made me realize how little attention I paid to all this.

Does anyone want to recommend me a pot-boiler or two? Not that I'll get to it this year or anything, but still...

 

[blackplatano]

Manton, I'm waiting.