"Modern" Frock Coats

[BenjaminZeev]

So I was looking at fabrics online and I came across a website "Dashing Tweeds" and they had a picture of a quite vibrant Connock and Lockie frock coat. Unfortunately it lacks a full front picture, but it made me think that maybe with the right fabric one could pull of a frock coat as modern clothing item. Now I know that it would not really be suited to replace a suit at work, but I think it could work in more casual or party like setting.

The issue is what could be done to a frock coat so one does not look like a cowboy, undertaker, goth, or have other unintended associations.

Dashing tweed link:
http://www.dashingtweeds.co.uk/company-info/gallery-and-tailors/

Nutter also did a modernized frock coat in 1975.

My thoughts are that if it is done in a solid, modern suiting fabric with a good but not overpower sheen, and in a color other than black, with some modern details like side pockets (jetted maybe), and breast pocket it could be pulled off in the right setting.

I have seen a lot of double breasted suits and these can look great with a pattern but I don't know how it would work with a longer garment.

Any thoughts?

My logic: Balmoral boots are back in style, even buttoned ones. And I have seen suits with waist seems and frock coat style backs, that look quite good, so... as a guy that loves coats, I thought maybe one can pull off a coat in place of a jacket.

 

[marcodalondra]

I have touched on the subject here http://www.styleforum.net/t/137063/frock-coats

Alexander McQueen has had few versions over the last few years.

The one in the link above that no longer work was this:

I think they consequently did a black version

 

[Sam H]

How is the last one different than a DB Chesterfield, besides the flaring of the skirt? Is that what a frock coat is? Are frock coats outerwear or bygone morning dress alternatives?

Edit: Also besides the patch pockets which could be chalked up to a stylistic choice anyway even though not traditionally on a Chesterfield AFAIK

 

[marcodalondra]



How is the last one different than a DB Chesterfield, besides the flaring of the skirt? Is that what a frock coat is? Are frock coats outerwear or bygone morning dress alternatives?

Edit: Also besides the patch pockets which could be chalked up to a stylistic choice anyway even though not traditionally on a Chesterfield AFAIK

Edit: 2nd and 3rd pictures are of the same basic coat (side pockets aside). If you zoom in you will be able to see a front centre seam and waist seams, which you would not find on a Chesterfield. The back is built as per morning coat (princess seams, body panels etc) and this front and back construction results in the flaring skirt effect.
The main difference on these modern examples is the absence of silk facing. There were both Frock coats (worn on top of waistcoats) and Overcoats (worn over frock coats)

 

[marcodalondra]

some more pictures with better detailing:

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

[BenjaminZeev]

I didn't know that Alexander McQueen did frock coats. This one looks good to me with flapped patch pockets, 3x8, and in navy. Were these (the ones you posted, or this model) MTM or custom/bespoke? I don't know how else they would get a good fit except by luck.


Here is David Bowie in an Alexander McQueen frock coat. Though I think only a rock star could pull off a coat like that.

 

[GBR]



I didn't know that Alexander McQueen did frock coats. This one looks good to me with flapped patch pockets, 3x8, and in navy. Were these (the ones you posted, or this model) MTM or custom/bespoke? I don't know how else they would get a good fit except by luck.
Here is David Bowie in an Alexander McQueen frock coat. Though I think only a rock star could pull off a coat like that.

These are costume NOT frock coats.

 

[BenjaminZeev]

These are costume NOT frock coats.

I get that the David Bowie frock coat is costume but why do you say that about the navy one?

 

[David Reeves]

They came back in the 90s in England you could even get them at next (a high street store). I have been toying of doing one in a silk blend, a bit spacey looking, a bit super villain.

 

[marcodalondra]



I get that the David Bowie frock coat is costume but why do you say that about the navy one?

I would not pay too much attention to GBR. He likes to criticise from up his pedistal as believes to know it all.

However, if you are going for an historicaly correct example, the patch and ticket pockets have no place on a frock overcoat. IMHO the missing silk lapels are acceptable in a modern context.
In any case, it would not be classic menswear as we know it today, a bit like you dressing in white tie to go to dinner to your local restaurant.

A better option, still IMO, and one I am planning with my tailor for next year or two year time, is a modern version of the Paletot/paddock coat.

The examples I posted were from fairly recent collections, I guess the red one was from around 2013

 

[BenjaminZeev]

They came back in the 90s in England you could even get them at next (a high street store). I have been toying of doing one in a silk blend, a bit spacey looking, a bit super villain.

Talking about spacy that reminds me of this "rainwear frock coat" by Denver Bespoke. It is styled based on a civil war military frock coat and is in a water proof microfiber fabric. The model is not the person the coat was made for so the fit is a bit off. Care to share any more details of what you are thinking for your version?

I would not pay too much attention to GBR. He likes to criticise from up his pedistal as believes to know it all.

However, if you are going for an historicaly correct example, the patch and ticket pockets have no place on a frock overcoat. IMHO the missing silk lapels are acceptable in a modern context.
In any case, it would not be classic menswear as we know it today, a bit like you dressing in white tie to go to dinner to your local restaurant.

A better option, still IMO, and one I am planning with my tailor for next year or two year time, is a modern version of the Paletot/paddock coat.

The examples I posted were from fairly recent collections, I guess the red one was from around 2013

I am not interested in historical accuracy when it comes to what I am wearing. However, it is often very interesting and useful to make notes of what would and would not be historically accurate. So while in 1910 a frock coat with patch pockets would be out of place, I think that adding patch pockets to a frock coat for 2016 makes the item no less out of place. With a nice heavy fabric it could be a good overcoat.

Mind if I ask how you would modernize a paletot?

 

[marcodalondra]



Talking about spacy that reminds me of this "rainwear frock coat" by Denver Bespoke. It is styled based on a civil war military frock coat and is in a water proof microfiber fabric. The model is not the person the coat was made for so the fit is a bit off. Care to share any more details of what you are thinking for your version? I am not interested in historical accuracy when it comes to what I am wearing. However, it is often very interesting and useful to make notes of what would and would not be historically accurate. So while in 1910 a frock coat with patch pockets would be out of place, I think that adding patch pockets to a frock coat for 2016 makes the item no less out of place. With a nice heavy fabric it could be a good overcoat. Mind if I ask how you would modernize a paletot?

The incongruency is in the fact that even a modern frock should be seen as a formal coat and patch pocket are too informal IMHO. The raincoat you posted above with waist seam is missing the central front seam to be defined a frock cut. I would like to keep the idea to myself about what I have in mind for my modern paletot as it will be the results of over two years of research and back and forth of idea with my tailor. The differences will be in some additional darts/seams not present in the original versions and the lenght (just cutting the middle of my knees) or a few cm above it.

 

[BenjaminZeev]

The incongruency is in the fact that even a modern frock should be seen as a formal coat and patch pocket are too informal IMHO.

The raincoat you posted above with waist seam is missing the central front seam to be defined a frock cut.

I would like to keep the idea to myself about what I have in mind for my modern paletot as it will be the results of over two years of research and back and forth of idea with my tailor. The differences will be in some additional darts/seams not present in the original versions and the lenght (just cutting the middle of my knees) or a few cm above it.

I was thinking of a modern frock coat being an alternative to a suit jacket or (for a frock overcoat) any overcoat to be worn with a suit, but I can see where you are coming from. It is just there are few occasions which merit formal dress, hence my thoughts about making the coat less formal (via patch pockets) was attractive. I would likely have styled it with jetted pockets were it my choice.

I never noticed that about the rain coat. Did the central front seam serve any purpose to your knowledge or was it just stylistic?

 

[marcodalondra]



I was thinking of a modern frock coat being an alternative to a suit jacket or (for a frock overcoat) any overcoat to be worn with a suit, but I can see where you are coming from. It is just there are few occasions which merit formal dress, hence my thoughts about making the coat less formal (via patch pockets) was attractive. I would likely have styled it with jetted pockets were it my choice.

I never noticed that about the rain coat. Did the central front seam serve any purpose to your knowledge or was it just stylistic?

A frock jacket as opposed to overcoat/topcoat would definitely be costume, sorry. The front dart was a feature of certain DB formalwear, like frocks and DB dipped front waistcoats Edit: I did not mean formal today in the strictest sense of an alternative or to be worn over morning tailcoat, but as a more formal alternative to a Chesterfield

 

[BenjaminZeev]

I guess you are right, anything long enough to be a frock coat would just look like an overcoat or topcoat, and people would be wondering why you are not taking your coat off rather than admiring any aspect of the tailoring.