Looking For A Set Of Kitchen Knives

[Englandmj7]

Any input from those of you knowledgeable in cookware/cutlery would be much appreciated. I know it isn't much, but I am hoping to spend under $75 or so for 3-4 good knives (one for meat/bread/etc.). I will probably end up getting them through e-bay to ensure a good price but I have no idea of reputable brands/companies or things to look for.

The only brand I have heard of is Henckel, but their sets seem to be over $100; even on e-bay. Any ideas?

 

[skalogre]

Chicago Cutlery's Walnut range - America's Test Kitchen recommended them as a passable alternative to Wusthof or Mainline Henckels. IIRC Consumer Reports agree on that.

 

[Andrew V.]

You might be able to get a few Wusthof Gourmet knives for that price (Gourmet is a less expensive line from Wusthof than, say, Wusthof Classic).

 

[skalogre]

Lternatively, get one good workhorse - I am partial to Wusthof - and the less important ones like utility and bread can be inexpensive...

 

[breakfasteatre]

england, you dont know me but probably e-hate me

but listen to this, i know my **** when it comes down to cutlery.

do not get any of the crap suggested so far, especially not wusthof gourmet (they are stamped steel knives, and are garbage)


what you want is forged. Make sure it says forged, a full tang does not necessarily mean the knife is forged

ebay is an incredible way to get bargains on knives, even though you want just a couple of knives, i have found that on ebay, individual knives go for more than the sets. I missed out on several whusthof grand prix II sets for around 150 bucks. That is a ******* out of this world deal, like finding a pair of those nerd boot visims for 2 dollars. Im not even exagerating here.

For knives you get what you pay for, like pretty much everything you buy.

You are pretty much best off going for a set from a well known manufacturer, it will be irritating sorting through the crap for the other, lesser known brands.

As well, go to a local homestore, check out the knives yourself so that you have knives in particular you can look up online. Everysingle knife will appear on ebay at some point in a month, so you have a 1000 choices.

 

[breakfasteatre]

the reason for forged, they will keep and hold an edge a 1000 times longer than any stamped knife, as long as you apply the steel regularily.

Before i did any research a bought a bunch of ****, and now, as you may guess, they are dull, which sucks, and is quite dangerous.

I did the research and bought my parents a great set, a zwilling henckel (zwilling is the quality stuff, henckel international is the crap) professional "s" set for around 150 US off of ebay, worth the money, the knives will last my parents, hopefully, the rest of their lives.

 

[skalogre]

Before you go off like that, do a little research breakfasteatre. First of all the reason I recommended the Chicago Cutlery is because they are forged and good value for money. At best he would get ONE Wusthof Classic for $75 which was his budget.
eBay can be very risky for knives anyway. You never know what you are getting.
All you really need is a good 8 inch chef's and a utility knife. The rest can be cheaper.

 

[Dmax]

Forged or stamped construction method is not related to edge retention of the knife in any way. Steel composition and the heat-threatment the blade receives determine edge retention. Henckels International line is made in Spain and China and features less expensive knives, I am assuming from less expensive steel that happen to be stamped. Henckels and Wusthoff generally do not disclose steel composition or Rockwell Hardness index of their knives (except for Twin Cermax line). I suspect it is because it would expose the cheap steel they use and lower RC levels when compared to their Japanese competitors like Shun. I agree with Skalogre also recommend you start with an 8 inch chef's or a 7 inch Suntuko knife and a small paring knife. If you cut a lot of crusty bread then I would recommend a dedicated serrated bread knife as well. Most Western style Japanese knives are not forged and they are superior to German made Henckels, Wusthoff and Messermeister in sharpness and edge retention. The current top of the line "German" knife is Henckels Twin Cermax 66. Guess where it is made -- Japan, and it is not forged. I belive it was manufactured by cintering (fusing) two pieces of stamped or stock-reduced steel. Twin Cermax 66 has an Rockwell Hardness index of 66 which is incredibly hard and translates into superior edge retention. The traditional German forged knives have RC index of below 60 (sometimes well below). Twin Cermax:

As long as you don't abuse them Japanese knives are better. German knives are thicker and tougher so if you throw your knives into your sink, chop frozen foods with them and steel them with ridged steel then German knives may be better for you. Any knife you get will need to be professionaly resharpened. The best way to sharpen japanese knives is using a japanese water stone. I don't like steeling but if you have to I recommend a smooth steeling rod, especially with Japanese knives. If you decide to give Japanese knives a try you can start with something like this:

Tojiro 210mm Guyto (about $50 from www.japanesechefsknife.com) Smaller and larger sizes available.

 

[savage]

Wow this is wicked helpful.. where was this when I was buying knives?!?!

 

[skalogre]

I'll expand (again) on what Dmax said; higher RC means better edge retentioin and hardness but also morer brittle composition. In the other thread I put how traditional japanese swords were differentially heat treated using clay to make the edge harder with a softer back to allow them to be more robust. Which is why if you see any old blades that have seen some action they may have chipping on the edge but structurally they are sound.
Personally as much as I am a fan of those things I would rather use the easier to deal with the more robust Solingen blades than a typical high hardness japanese knife. YMMV etc etc etc
If all you want is hardness, a Kyocera Ceramic blade is what you want. Just hope you don't hit bone.

Edit:
The whole RC thing is very much like the Super numbers for suits; an opportunity for manufacturers to one-up each other when in reality that is only a piece of the puzzle.

 

[Dmax]

Just so I don't come off a madhatter of german knives I think Wusthof Culinar, Classic and Grand Prix and Henckels Pro-S, 4 star, 5 star, Twin Cuisine and Twin Cermax are perfectly good knives and I own some myself. That said they are not the pinnacle of the kitchen knife craft and no knife geeks lust after them.

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by Dmax

Just so I don't come off a madhatter of german knives I think Wusthof Culinar, Classic and Grand Prix and Henckels Pro-S, 4 star, 5 star, Twin Cuisine and Twin Cermax are perfectly good knives and I own some myself. That said they are not the pinnacle of the kitchen knife craft and no knife geeks lust after them.

Hell, if I were to get a blade to keep, I would get a tamahagane ore japanese chef's knife. IIRC there are some smiths that do that on the side (I believe that the Cultural ministry does not put any production restrictions on anything below a wakizashi in size) but naturally they are expensive and demanding blades. Plus polishing properly with waterstones takes years at the very least especially with hand forged blades...
But for the time being my Classic works well as an all-purpose knife.

 

[philosophe]

You might take a look at John Borg's site, knifemerchant.com. He provides a lot of information, including recommendations, and his prices are good.

 

[Englandmj7]

Thanks everyone; very helpful info. Normally I would have just bought some more crappy knives and needed new ones in a year or two, but I met a guy from Canada who was a sous-chef visiting Japan when I was there a couple of months ago and he exposed me to the almost cult-like obsession chefs/culinary-inclined people have with their knives. This guy said he wouldn't even leave the house without his......so I figured I might make an investment (albeit a pretty cheap one at my budget). I will get to work scouring e-bay.

Originally Posted by breakfasteatre

england, you dont know me but probably e-hate me

I appreciate the help man. Regarding the hate; to the contrary. Ever since I saw that naked picture of you standing in your kitchen I have e-loved you.

 

[Andrew V.]

Well excuse me for recommending "crap", breakfasteatre.