Jomon ... Great denim ... But

[Brian SD]

Sorry Brian, but I've got to agree with all of ringring's points here, especially the highlighted part at the end of the quote (my highlighting). There is really nothing particularly special about narrow loom shuttle denim compared to open ended projectile looms. What makes denim durable has a lot more to do with the quality of the yarn used. Also, my friggin' 5EPs and Nudies are so damn expensive primarily because the market can bear it. A one rinse wash is a $1 wash. Any laundry can do it. And yes, in some cases, the good repros are probably better than the originals... But in general, increased cost due to limited production, and more importantly, because idiots like ourselves are willing to pay the prices, are what make a pair of Nudie jeans $265 or $399 (I think that's the current price for the Veggie indigo RRs, right?

I never said that shuttle loom denim is more durable than projectile loom. Shuttle loom != ring-ring. Just to clarify.

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by Brian SD

I never said that shuttle loom denim is more durable than projectile loom. Shuttle loom != ring-ring. Just to clarify.

Oh whoops, misread and then miswrote. Neverthessless, my point remains the same. The process (ringspinning the yarn) is much less important to durability than the quality of fibers used to make they yarn itself.

I am going to edit my original post, because that was a truly rookie mistake.

 

[ringring]

Ring-ring and open end refer to the yarns - ie. the spinning method. Not the looms (weaving method).

Many (most? - certainly the best known mills) mills weave ring-ring denim on modern wide width looms.

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by ringring

Ring-ring and open end refer to the yarns - ie. the spinning method. Not the looms (weaving method).

Many (most? - certainly the best known mills) mills weave ring-ring denim on modern wide width looms.

Yep, I know, like I said, Brian chastised me for my mistake already, and I corrected it. I feel slightly ashamed because I think that I told someone at Superfuture exactly that a while ago...

I feel like an idiot. Are ya both satisfied now

 

[Roland]

As an owner of the Badou-R Jomons, I just wanted to say a few things.

$800 pair of jeans - Yes, they're expensive, but so is any pair of natural indigo jeans. I don't think you can find natural indigo jeans for under $500.00. While you can rationalize it anyway you want, its still a lot of money and there's no denying that ... a custom suit, a luxury lower tier watch, a decent bike, 4 pairs of ****** jeans, $200 a year for 4 years etc. etc. I bought jomons because I love jeans, wanted natural indigo, and the fit was perfect. For me, they're not a status symbol and I'm not proud of the fact that I own such expensive jeans, although I'm not about to cut off the horse head detail.

Construction - The construction is fine. Its on par with the other top tier Japanese jeans that I own. As you mentioned the chainstiching, the Jomons double two colored chainstitching is the nicest I have on any of my jeans. As for the loose threads, sure they should have been clipped. At the same time, I had no problem turning my jeans inside out and clipping them myself. For me, jeans are a labor of love and I don't mind tending to them (ie clipping threads or rubbing neatsfoot oil on the patch after washing). Anyway, 45rpm fixes the jeans for free for life.

 

[DNW]

Originally Posted by Roland

As an owner of the Badou-R Jomons, I just wanted to say a few things.

$800 pair of jeans - Yes, they're expensive, but so is any pair of natural indigo jeans. I don't think you can find natural indigo jeans for under $500.00. While you can rationalize it anyway you want, its still a lot of money and there's no denying that ... a custom suit, a luxury lower tier watch, a decent bike, 4 pairs of ****** jeans, $200 a year for 4 years etc. etc. I bought jomons because I love jeans, wanted natural indigo, and the fit was perfect. For me, they're not a status symbol and I'm not proud of the fact that I own such expensive jeans, although I'm not about to cut off the horse head detail.

Construction - The construction is fine. Its on par with the other top tier Japanese jeans that I own. As you mentioned the chainstiching, the Jomons double two colored chainstitching is the nicest I have on any of my jeans. As for the loose threads, sure they should have been clipped. At the same time, I had no problem turning my jeans inside out and clipping them myself. For me, jeans are a labor of love and I don't mind tending to them (ie clipping threads or rubbing neatsfoot oil on the patch after washing). Anyway, 45rpm fixes the jeans for free for life.

Man, do you sell for 45rpm?

Seriously, I wouldn't hesitate 1 second to buy a pair if I wasn't a broke ass student.

 

[tangerine]

Originally Posted by Roland

As an owner of the Badou-R Jomons, I just wanted to say a few things.

$800 pair of jeans - Yes, they're expensive, but so is any pair of natural indigo jeans. I don't think you can find natural indigo jeans for under $500.00...

As a professional nit-picker, I feel compelled to state that the Sugarcane Hawaii SC40400N are natural indigo, and at the current exchange rate they are available for $281 US at Hinoya.

Even with brokerage and shipping costs, they should come in under $400.

That is all, carry on.

 

[Clockwork Muffin]

Wow, $817? I thought the $300-$400 prices in their Niigata shop was absurd.

The didn't seem to be any better made than Sugar Canes or other Japanese brands, just a little greener from their dye. I'm sure they'll age nicer than synthetic indigo, but I personally couldn't justify twice the price.

Thanks for keeping us grounded, Alexander.

 

[ringring]

Originally Posted by tangerine

As a professional nit-picker, I feel compelled to state that the Sugarcane Hawaii SC40400N are natural indigo, and at the current exchange rate they are available for $281 US at Hinoya.

Even with brokerage and shipping costs, they should come in under $400.

That is all, carry on.

Those Cane's are superb.

Also in natural indigo are Pure Blue Japan's AI-001, at 45000 Yen which is also under $400. Ex suppliers to 45rpm. Slim fit, low rise. Extraordinary fabric.

 

[whoopee]

I had a chance to see the Jomons today. Not my thing but the Sorahikos were.

Anyway it seems to me that the imperfections are an example of the Japanese quest for perfect replicas of the imperfect past.

 

[sashae]

Originally Posted by ringring

Those Cane's are superb.

Also in natural indigo are Pure Blue Japan's AI-001, at 45000 Yen which is also under $400. Ex suppliers to 45rpm. Slim fit, low rise. Extraordinary fabric.

Blue Blood Dry Goods are natural indigo as well, and around $200USD. Picked up a pair recently, I'm quite pleased... made in HK, not JP, but the finish is quite good.

 

[trinket]

Originally Posted by ringring

I'm not sure that denim made 100 years ago was better than the denim of today either. They just wanted a cheap, hard wearing, colourfast textile for work garments.

Thanks for the interesting thread!


Is it correct that ringspun denim did not appear on the market until the 1980s?

I had a link (which I lost) stating that Edwin were the first company to produce ringspun jeans in the 1980s.

IF this is true, then it would infer that the old 1960s Levis etc would not be as strong as modern jeans? And slubby denim in old jeans was a product of irregularities in the open (unspun?) thread?

 

[ringring]

I think the Edwin reference is related to stonewashing rather than ringspinning. Both Edwin and Girbaud claim to have invented it's use.

Ringspinning was developed in the first half of the 1800s, so it's been around a long while.

Open end spinning wasn't developed until the 1960s and wasn't widely adopted for denim until the 80s.

 

[mizanation]

if 45 rpm will fix the Jomon's for life, then that's kinda like a lifetime warrantee, right? and what do they mean exactly by fixing?

 

[denimdestroyedmylife]

Welcome, Mizanation!

That policy makes R by 45 RPM the best value out there. The Jomons suddenly feel like they are in my reach, $800 stretched out over another 40 years is like... $20 bucks a year. I would be SAVING money by getting them. Hopefully I can write them off as workwear on next year's taxes.