J.D. vs. MBA Discuss...

[IUtoSLU]

College students, once again, are stupid.

 

[velvel87]

Originally Posted by IUtoSLU

College students, once again, are stupid.

+1 Sorry but it's true.

 

[Flambeur]

Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington

The type of companies that recruits MBAs at top tier school (even at lower ranked schools, really) WANT WORK EXPERIENCE! Period!

Really can't stress this enough. Typical company that recruits at a good/top MBA program wants 4-6 years of GOOD experience. Otherwise you can get other jobs, but they won't be much better than those you cant get out of undergrad..

 

[Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by IUtoSLU

College students, once again, are stupid.

Maybe somewhat, but mostly just naive

 

[Betz]

I am a lawyer and I have a J.D. from a top tier law school (University of California, Hastings College of the Law). I would caution anyone considering becoming a lawyer or getting a J.D. to really think about whether they want to be a lawyer. If you want to be a lawyer and you are excited about the profession then, by all means, pursue it. However, there are a lot of people out there who graduate from Nameless State School with some kind of liberal arts degree who do not know what they want to do. So, instead of really doing some soul searching, they just go to law school, expecting to make a lot of money once they are out of school.

Do not do this. If you do not really want to be a lawyer, then it is a huge waste of time and money to get a J.D. Salaries are not what they were during the 90s. The legal profession has been terrible at keeping people out who do not deserve to be there. The amount of law schools in the United States is astounding. Thanks to all these third-tier law schools out there the market is saturated. So, unless you are one of the very few to land a big-law job, you won't be making enough to really make the $140k debt you will likely incur getting your J.D. worth it.

Something to think about. I really enjoy being a lawyer, but I knew what kind of law I wanted to go into, and I got a job in that field. Many people have no idea what they want to do and end up being miserable.

 

[Matt]

^excellent advice.

 

[JoelF]

Seems like there's an assumption here that the only thing to do with a law degree is "be a lawyer". Quite a few of my law school classmates just used it as a stepping stone to other things, banking, corporate jobs, startups, consulting, investing, real estate, whatever and have done extremely well. And many of those who actually practice seem to have good side ventures going, where the real cash is.

 

[Matt]

I don't disagree with that, and I am presently thinking of exactly three people who I know who studied law and either never practised, or got out of it later to put those skills to work elsewhere.

But I think what that argument overlooks is the current market glut of law grads looking for something...****, anything...that they can do with a degree that promised them six figure start salaries at LSAT time, and left them pondering "what else can I do with this?"

 

[kxk]

Originally Posted by JoelF

Seems like there's an assumption here that the only thing to do with a law degree is "be a lawyer". Quite a few of my law school classmates just used it as a stepping stone to other things, banking, corporate jobs, startups, consulting, investing, real estate, whatever and have done extremely well. And many of those who actually practice seem to have good side ventures going, where the real cash is.


I don't disagree with this at all, as I am actually not going to be practicing law with my law degree.
But it's quite silly to make the law school investment with these outcomes in mind.

 

[Betz]

Originally Posted by Matt

^excellent advice.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by JoelF

Seems like there's an assumption here that the only thing to do with a law degree is "be a lawyer". Quite a few of my law school classmates just used it as a stepping stone to other things, banking, corporate jobs, startups, consulting, investing, real estate, whatever and have done extremely well. And many of those who actually practice seem to have good side ventures going, where the real cash is.

While I was in law school I had a "soul searching" moment when I started looking for other lines of work. While it certainly is possible to go into other fields with a J.D., it still is not worth the investment to go to law school with the plans of not being a lawyer. A legal education is very expensive and very specific. The problem I encountered, and friends of mine encountered, when trying to get another job in a non-legal field was that every employer thought the same thing: "If you got a J.D., why the hell are you here? You couldn't cut it as a lawyer or what?"

Yeah, it certainly is possible to use law as a jumpstart for something else, but if you have the option before going into law school of getting a different kind of education (perhaps an MBA), then that would probably be a better choice. Something to think about.

 

[CTGuy]

Betz gives excellent advice.

I have a JD from a crappy law school. I am doing fine, but I would probably be doing just as well had I just continued working after graduating from a well regarded undergrad.

You can pursue professions other than "law" with a law degree, but the opportunities are a lot more limited than you imagine and moving into one of those fields requires a lot of experience and qualifications that a wet behind the ears college+law school grad does not have. As an example many lawyers with accounting experience and a masters in taxation move out of strictly legal work into more of a general tax consulting type of work.

Personally I was lucky enough to work in the political/lobbying world after law school based on some unique connections that I made, but several years later I find myself back to doing traditional legal work because I need the money that my degree demands. Ultimately many law school grads are caught in a trap where they are underpaid, but have no choice but to accept legal positions because they have a lot of student loan debt. It's by no means a tough life (I am very happy), but from a financial planning/career planning stand point- don't do it unless you really want to be a lawyer.

As far as an MBA, I think it mirrors law school in one to two respects. Many people who already have experience and connections will in general get more out of the degree because they are relying less on the degree alone to improve their career prospects. Thus leading to my second point, you will generally fare much better no matter what if you go to one of the top ranked schools that have a very strong brand and will help you compete (same goes for law school if I haven't already made that clear).

I have only second hand knowledge of MBA-world, but one tid-bit I will impart is from my girlfriend's experience at an investment bank where she is an AVP on the operations side. She has told me that for mid-career and entry level positions she and her superiors will not even consider MBA grads for positions in their department because they are concerned the candidates will expect higher pay and generally will be less satisfied with the level of work they recieve. Granted, her side of the finance world is not the sexy "investment banker" type of stuff, but I always keep that in mind when talking to friends thinking about MBAs.

That said-- both degrees can be helpful and valuable, but as Betz and others said BOTH degrees are becoming a dime a dozen. My own advice (if you are asking for it) is to consider a more specialized graduate degree first. I have friends who have benefited a great deal from Masters in Information Technology or Masters in Accounting combined with their work experience.

Its a good start asking questions here, but make sure you do your homework no matter what investment you make. Good luck!

 

[CTGuy]

The problem I encountered, and friends of mine encountered, when trying to get another job in a non-legal field was that every employer thought the same thing: "If you got a J.D., why the hell are you here? You couldn't cut it as a lawyer or what?" QUOTE]

Again, very good advice. I have had personal experience looking for non-lawyer type jobs and one thing I can say for sure is to expect the first part of any interview to be devoted to a lengthy discussion of why you are not practicing no matter how impressive your resume is.

 

[Joffrey]

Originally Posted by JoelF

Seems like there's an assumption here that the only thing to do with a law degree is "be a lawyer". Quite a few of my law school classmates just used it as a stepping stone to other things, banking, corporate jobs, startups, consulting, investing, real estate, whatever and have done extremely well. And many of those who actually practice seem to have good side ventures going, where the real cash is.

This was my plan. No real interest in the law but felt a JD would work best with my current field and would be more "flexible" than M.A. in my field of interest or an MBA. Dropped about $2k on the LSAT, Powerscore and fees. Thankfully I never went. It would've been a miserable 4 years (I was planning on doing part time).

 

[JoelF]

It's far from black and white. Disagree with the idea that if you don't have your future fully mapped out it's a total waste to go to law school. On the business side at least there are many opportunities that open up through law practice, whether it's biglaw or something more local. It's also a great way to get socialized in the business world, assuming you don't come from a background where you have that out of the box.

 

[Lord-Barrington]

Originally Posted by JoelF

It's far from black and white. Disagree with the idea that if you don't have your future fully mapped out it's a total waste to go to law school. On the business side at least there are many opportunities that open up through law practice, whether it's biglaw or something more local. It's also a great way to get socialized in the business world, assuming you don't come from a background where you have that out of the box.

Here's a crazy idea: How about you get socialized in the business world by working for a business?