inside leather?

[Eck]

hey! what type of leather is used for the inside of the shoes?
Is it some kind of special type?
Thanks.

 

[Manton]

The lining is lower grade stuff that is not fine enough to be used for uppers. I think it's also from the thinner, softer areas of the skin as well.

The insole is a thick, rough piece from a totally different part of the animal.

I was just at a bunch of shoe factories, and someone explained all this -- what type of leather is used for every part -- but I don't remember it all.

 

[Eck]

From what I have read on the forum vegetable tanned leather is best used for the inside of the shoe.
Does anyone know where one can purchase this leather from?
Does anyone know a good website or seller that sells shoe manufacturing products?
Thanks

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Manton

The lining is lower grade stuff that is not fine enough to be used for uppers. I think it's also from the thinner, softer areas of the skin as well.

The insole is a thick, rough piece from a totally different part of the animal.

I was just at a bunch of shoe factories, and someone explained all this -- what type of leather is used for every part -- but I don't remember it all.
Manton, while in Northampton, did you happen to determine why EG don't fully line their shoes? Cost-cutting? One way, in my opinion, that C&J Handgrades (and Vass, et al.) are superior to EG is that they are fully leather lined. To my eye, the inside of an EG seems unfinished and cheap (although I've noticed that it hasn't stopped me from buying them).

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by Eck

From what I have read on the forum vegetable tanned leather is best used for the inside of the shoe.
Does anyone know where one can purchase this leather from?
Does anyone know a good website or seller that sells shoe manufacturing products?
Thanks
Try these guys. They seem to have just about everything, and they're very easy to deal with. I've bought shoe trees from them. I don't know how much actual leather they have, but they do have some (look under "Trim Supplies"); an e-mail to them would be wise. If they can't supply you with the leather you want, they should know who can. Good luck!

http://stores.ebay.com/Zelikovitz-Leathers-and-Crafts

 

[well-kept]

Originally Posted by Roger

Manton, while in Northampton, did you happen to determine why EG don't fully line their shoes? Cost-cutting? One way, in my opinion, that C&J Handgrades (and Vass, et al.) are superior to EG is that they are fully leather lined. To my eye, the inside of an EG seems unfinished and cheap (although I've noticed that it hasn't stopped me from buying them).

Almost all EGs are fully leather lined. The very few exceptions are certain slip ons - the Harrow for example - and the Badminton chukka. By 'lined' do you mean the half-length insole cover?

 

[Manton]

Yeah, I thought they were all leather lined, except Harrow and one or two other models. One of the pics in my post shows a full lining being put into an oxford upper.

No, I did not ask them about it. Unlined shoes strike me as pretty rare across all the makers, except for casual slip-ons.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by Roger

.....why EG don't fully line their shoes? Cost-cutting? One way, in my opinion, that C&J Handgrades (and Vass, et al.) are superior to EG is that they are fully leather lined. To my eye, the inside of an EG seems unfinished and cheap.
I presume Roger is referring to the "sock" (the insole lining). Traditional English shoes, bespoke and ready-to-wear use short socks (just like American ones; I've ever seen American shoes with half socks.

Here a number of bespoke London shoemakers (the crème de la crème from the Golden Age of shoemaking) using short socks:

Cleverley:

Peal:

Tuczek:

Lobb:

A long sock in England is about as common as Savile Row trousers with a lining down the front. (I know C&J does long socks for the "˜hand grades'; but I cannot think of anyone else.)

Italian shoes use usually a long sock; partly, probably because they use Blake construction. There you have a row of stitching running around the insole causing a certain degree of discomfort; a long sock will alleviate this to a degree. I believe Austro/Hungarian firms have a penchant for long socks.

Advantage of the short sock is a cooler shoe, as the sweat can sink straight into the insole, without a layer of glue adding an additional barrier.

P.S. Roger, if you prefer a long sock in your next EG made-to-order, just specify it with the order.

 

[well-kept]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

Traditional English shoes, bespoke and ready-to-wear use short socks
A long sock in England is about as common as Savile Row trousers with a lining down the front.

I have three pair of Lobb St. James slip-ons with full length sock liners. Their Oxfords and Derbies have half-length liners.

 

[Manton]

Interesting, bengal. Thanks.

I notice that my Lobb Paris bespoke oxfords also have a half sock.

 

[Eck]

Oh interesting...i thought it was just called an insole.
Well where can one purchase one of these socks? I have noticed there are various colors...

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

I presume Roger is referring to the "sock" (the insole lining). Traditional English shoes, bespoke and ready-to-wear use short socks (just like American ones; I've ever seen American shoes with half socks.

A long sock in England is about as common as Savile Row trousers with a lining down the front. (I know C&J does long socks for the "˜hand grades'; but I cannot think of anyone else.)

Italian shoes use usually a long sock; partly, probably because they use Blake construction. There you have a row of stitching running around the insole causing a certain degree of discomfort; a long sock will alleviate this to a degree. I believe Austro/Hungarian firms have a penchant for long socks.

Advantage of the short sock is a cooler shoe, as the sweat can sink straight into the insole, without a layer of glue adding an additional barrier.

P.S. Roger, if you prefer a long sock in your next EG made-to-order, just specify it with the order.
Thanks, Bengal-stripe; yes, I was referring to the sock (although I've never fully understood the meaning of that term until now), not the lining and should have been more precise. I do prefer a long sock and like the way that C&J does this on their Handgrades, but now understand the phenomenon much better and can see the advantage you've pointed out for the short sock. Perhaps on my next EGs, I will specify the long sock now that I know that this is possible.

 

[DWFII]

The "sock" as a terminology derives from "sock lining." This is put in the shoe for various reasons, not the least of which is that customers often think of the shoe as unfinished if there is none.

However, there is a reason with some validity...the heel of the shoe is often nailed (tacked) or pegged and, in the case of nails the points are turn on a metal plate on the bottom of the last. while not wholly visible to a casual observer they are there and are exposed to the moisture and salt that the foot generates. this will cause the tack...in most cases, simply cut iron 'lasting tacks" or sections of wire...to rust and rust is a slow fire. Eventually it carbonizes the leather around it, making the insole brittle and dry.

A sock liner prevents moisture from reaching the tacks at least to some degree--depends on the foot and how often the shoes are worn.

Really good shoes...high end, bespoke shoes do not use tacks or nails if they can be avoided. And by one means or another, they can be. One way is to use pegs in lieu of tack. Vass does this, I believe.

In the case of pegs, however, there may be some residual roughness that is present or may develop as the shoe "settles in."

In this case, the sock protects the foot from this roughness and what ever added roughness that the insole may retain or develop. It also protect what ever hosiery is being worn from what ever residual roughness is inside the shoe.

Hence, the name "sock liner."

In most cases sock liners are not vegetable tanned but pieces ...matching or contrasting...of leather similar to the upper leather and generally either too poor a quality or too small a scrap to be used in the uppers themselves.

But at bottom, sock liners are more for the customer's expectation...especially on hand made shoes...than for any essential function. That's why they're stamped with gold lettering.

 

[Eck]

It seems that from the pictures you have provided the interiorof the shoes in the past used to be dyed into any colour they wanted whereas now...well at least all my shoes have a beigey tanned leather interior. Is there a reason for that?