How to spot a fake welt-constructed shoe?

[BostonElitist]

I was at the Brook's Brothers in Boston today, and I talked to an amazing employee who was very knowledgeable about clothes. He knew much about clothes, and he was in the business for 30+ years, and he even had bought clothes at a wholesale level.

He showed me a $99 pair of Levi Docker shoes that had stitching underneath as well as nail holes. He told me that those were all fake, and that it's common for companies to make their cheap shoes have the appearance that they were welt-constructed. I also noticed that the "Made in India" formal shoes of Zara appear to have nails on the under-sole and welt-construction, but this must be fake as well, as these shoes look shoddy.

How do you tell if a shoe has welt-construction to it? I realize that you should be able to see the stitching on top of the sole, and on the bottom of the sole itself, you should see stitching. However, a company can add "fake welt construction stitching".

 

[DocHolliday]

The "fake" stitching is molded into the sole. So look for real stitching instead of molded rubber.

Also, look at how the upper folds under as it joins the sole. On a welted shoe, you can see it actually fold under. On glued shoes, it often looks like it goes straight down, like a wall joins a floor.

The best thing to do is examine a welted shoe next to a glued shoe. You'll learn to spot the differences.

 

[Redwoood]

Let's revive this. So how about a Norvegese like this

where the welt or whatever it is is folded up perpendicular to the sole. I've seen glue jobs that looked like that.

 

[rebel222]

Originally Posted by Redwoood

Let's revive this.

So how about a Norvegese like this


where the welt or whatever it is is folded up perpendicular to the sole.
I've seen glue jobs that looked like that.

Are you asking a question? I probably know the answer, but I can't tell if there is a question in your post.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

The "fake" stitching is molded into the sole. So look for real stitching instead of molded rubber.

Also, look at how the upper folds under as it joins the sole. On a welted shoe, you can see it actually fold under. On glued shoes, it often looks like it goes straight down, like a wall joins a floor.

The best thing to do is examine a welted shoe next to a glued shoe. You'll learn to spot the differences.

This is pretty much spot on. As far as the norgevese, it is obvious by all of the actual stitches that you can see. Glued can have lumps and bumps, but it is fairy easy to tell.

 

[Redwoood]

Originally Posted by rebel222

Are you asking a question? I probably know the answer, but I can't tell if there is a question in your post.
No, wouldn't want to waste your time.

Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH

This is pretty much spot on. As far as the norgevese, it is obvious by all of the actual stitches that you can see. Glued can have lumps and bumps, but it is fairy easy to tell.
I'm not talking about fake stitching. There are shoes that have a real welt with real stitching, but none of this holds the shoe together. The upper is glued to the welt on the side ( and to the sole I'd imagine) ETA: Assume that sole channel is closed, or covered by some rubber/vibram

 

[rebel222]

Originally Posted by Redwoood

No, wouldn't want to waste your time.

WTF is your problem? Learn to phrase a proper question, and you will get more help.

 

[Viral]

wow............now we have the "fake welted shoe" police??

Common sense says that Zara and Levi's (and the like) don't sell anything of substantial quality.

 

[Redwoood]

Originally Posted by rebel222

WTF is your problem? Learn to phrase a proper question, and you will get more help.

The question is the sentence preceding a question mark that is guiding this entire thread.
It appears on top of every posting in this thread, and for your convenience, vb has even set it
in bold face. It is the one that you had to click on in order to read this thread.
Here it is, one more time, just in case:

How to spot a fake welt-constructed shoe?

While it is not a complete sentence as it misses a subject, I believe the meaning is quite clear.
I don't want to turn this thread into one about reading comprehension, question-phrasing prowess, or other smartassery. If you want to pursue this line of thought further, I'd suggest starting a thread in GC or DT with a title along the lines of "Musings/Rantings of an English Teacher". In any case, this is the last I shall write on this subject.

Now, I'm assuming against my better judgement that this is all a horrible misunderstanding, and that you genuinely want to help and contribute with your vast knowledge of footwear.
If that is indeed the case, I sincerely welcome your input in regard to the question above.

 

[rebel222]

Originally Posted by Redwoood

The question is the sentence preceding a question mark that is guiding this entire thread.
It appears on top of every posting in this thread, and for your convenience, vb has even set it
in bold face. It is the one that you had to click on in order to read this thread.
Here it is, one more time, just in case:

How to spot a fake welt-constructed shoe?

While it is not a complete sentence as it misses a subject, I believe the meaning is quite clear.
I don't want to turn this thread into one about reading comprehension, question-phrasing prowess, or other smartassery. If you want to pursue this line of thought further, I'd suggest starting a thread in GC or DT with a title along the lines of "Musings/Rantings of an English Teacher". In any case, this is the last I shall write on this subject.

Now, I'm assuming against my better judgement that this is all a horrible misunderstanding, and that you genuinely want to help and contribute with your vast knowledge of footwear.
If that is indeed the case, I sincerely welcome your input in regard to the question above.

You are obnoxious. I did want to contribute, but you failed to make your question clear. I could go through the numerous potential questions that rise from your incoherent text:

The "how to plot a fake welt-constructed shoes" question has been answered. If you are asking about the picture, that is not fake. If you are asking about a hypothetical norvegese constructed shoe, then if the stitching is not real, the norvegese construction is fake. If there is actual stitching that holds the pieces together, in addition to glue, then it's real.

 

[Redwoood]

Originally Posted by rebel222

[...] The "how to plot a fake welt-constructed shoes" question has been answered. If you are asking about the picture, that is not fake. If you are asking about a hypothetical norvegese constructed shoe, then if the stitching is not real, the norvegese construction is fake. If there is actual stitching that holds the pieces together, in addition to glue, then it's real.
Now we're getting somewhere. I'm talking about real stitching that goes through something that looks like a welt. But it serves no constructive purpose and is merely decorative. The shoe is still glued. Because the 'welt' is folded up, you can't really see where the upper meets the sole. ETA: I used to have a shoe like that, not sure if it's still around. I'll take pictures if I can find it. In any case, it would be obvious for that one because the glue started to delaminate. For a brand-new shoe, the glue would still be intact, and you wouldn't be able to tell.

 

[rebel222]

Even if a shoe is stitched, there is still glue. Here is a diagram of a true norvegese construction.

If it's missing anything from that diagram, then it's fake. BTW: That picture may be a storm welt and not a norvegese. I can't really tell from the angle.

 

[Redwoood]

Originally Posted by rebel222

Even if a shoe is stitched, there is still glue.

Here is a diagram of a true norvegese construction.

If it's missing anything from that diagram, then it's fake.

BTW: That picture may be a storm welt and not a norvegese. I can't really tell from the angle.

I guess what I'm talking about is a "Norwegian welt" construction; anyway it looks somewhat like the diagram above. Let's ignore for now whether or not you can see the upper between the welt and the sole

Now, imagine you took a welt strip bent at 90 degrees as above. Then you run two rows of decorative stitching through it, one on each side. So basically, you're holding a strip of welt with two rows of stitching in your hand.
Now, you could take a glued shoe where the sole extends somewhat beyond the upper, and glue the 'welt' to where the upper meets the sole. How could a potential buyer distinguish this from a real welted shoe?

 

[rebel222]

Pull on it and see if the stitching is securing anything. The price point of the shoe is a good indicator if that is decorative.

Most fakes will not have decorative stitching. it will be molded rubber with stitching molded into it.

Edit: I am wearing storm welt shoes now. There is a similar attachment of the welt to the uppers. It is not glued, so I can pull on it and see that the stitching is actually securing this piece of leather to the upper.

 

[bengal-stripe]

A welt that serves no constructional function at all, but is purely decorative is called a "˜bonwelt'.

In this catalogue of "˜endless' welts, you'll find plenty of bonwelts with real-fake stitching in place.

http://www.barbourcorp.com/pdf/welting_catalog.pdf