Guys giving me a hard time at work because I wear suits all the time

[jssdc]

Thank you for sharing this anecdote. I am a firm believer of "dress for the job you want, not the one you have." I mentioned I am 24, but I also should have mentioned that most of the people that work at my company have been at the company for 25+ years. The program I'm in recruits from top universities to bring young talent into the organization. When I see people who have accomplished more than me, I don't see them as superior, but more so as people who are just simply older than me.

In a place of business, I like to look professional. I feel that it promotes an image of responsibility, seriousness, and earnestness. I unlike some of the more senior people I don't have 30+ years of experience under my belt, so I feel that I am obligated to make up for it where ever possible.

Corporate work is subjective, particularly at management levels, and although many think that all that matters is the quality of your work- they are mistaken. Quality of work is a only a majority part, and for those who's work is easily quantifiable it is just as easily outsourced.

Why try to fit in, when you're born to stand out?

I share archetypal's troll suspicions, but assuming that your posts are genuine then you are supplying loads of supporting evidence for my hypothesis that your colleagues are giving you **** for your personality and not for your dress.

I am a management consultant by trade and so my work involves a lot of senior stakeholder contact with client executives, but also requires the support and cooperation of people at multiple levels in the organization. As a consultant, there's a lot of negative stereotypes that you carry with you (you know, smarty-pants hot-shot overpaid sort of thing). I imagine that recruits for junior rotational programs bring much of the same baggage. Accepted best practice is to dress in a way that makes your client comfortable, however that may be, but in reality what you're attempting to do is present a certain demeanor of which your dress is simply a component. Much more important is the way that you conduct yourself and the way that you treat people, both junior and senior.

I've seen Partners pull analysts (most of whom, btw, have more or less identical resumes to rotational program types) off of engagements for being nasty to receptionists at the client, and I've always respected them more for it. In your first post you said something about "dressing like a gentlemen." Gentlemen do not dress in a particular way, but they do behave in particular ways - ways in which it appears you do not.

 

[Swede66]



I share archetypal's troll suspicions, but assuming that your posts are genuine then you are supplying loads of supporting evidence for my hypothesis that your colleagues are giving you **** for your personality and not for your dress.

I am a management consultant by trade and so my work involves a lot of senior stakeholder contact with client executives, but also requires the support and cooperation of people at multiple levels in the organization.  As a consultant, there's a lot of negative stereotypes that you carry with you (you know, smarty-pants hot-shot overpaid sort of thing).  I imagine that recruits for junior rotational programs bring much of the same baggage.  Accepted best practice is to dress in a way that makes your client comfortable, however that may be, but in reality what you're attempting to do is present a certain demeanor of which your dress is simply a component.  Much more important is the way that you conduct yourself and the way that you treat people, both junior and senior.  

I've seen Partners pull analysts (most of whom, btw, have more or less identical resumes to rotational program types) off of engagements for being nasty to receptionists at the client, and I've always respected them more for it.  In your first post you said something about "dressing like a gentlemen."  Gentlemen do not dress in a particular way, but they do behave in particular ways - ways in which it appears you do not.

This was well formulated and insightful.

 

[slickback]

I share archetypal's troll suspicions, but assuming that your posts are genuine then you are supplying loads of supporting evidence for my hypothesis that your colleagues are giving you **** for your personality and not for your dress.

I am a management consultant by trade and so my work involves a lot of senior stakeholder contact with client executives, but also requires the support and cooperation of people at multiple levels in the organization. As a consultant, there's a lot of negative stereotypes that you carry with you (you know, smarty-pants hot-shot overpaid sort of thing). I imagine that recruits for junior rotational programs bring much of the same baggage. Accepted best practice is to dress in a way that makes your client comfortable, however that may be, but in reality what you're attempting to do is present a certain demeanor of which your dress is simply a component. Much more important is the way that you conduct yourself and the way that you treat people, both junior and senior.

I've seen Partners pull analysts (most of whom, btw, have more or less identical resumes to rotational program types) off of engagements for being nasty to receptionists at the client, and I've always respected them more for it. In your first post you said something about "dressing like a gentlemen." Gentlemen do not dress in a particular way, but they do behave in particular ways - ways in which it appears you do not.

Thanks for the input

 

[jedwards]

The 'problem' with this post, is there are grains of truth in what both 'sides' have said.

We are all here because we like good clothes. Mostly this means expensive clothes.

So should he "dumb down"?

Hard to say, but let's say yes he should lose the suits so he can fit in....

Next level down from a suit then - SF approved brands for "casual" wear such as Carmina, C&J, Alden alongside Incotex and handmade shirts.

Well, I hate to say it, but these garments will STILL stand out an awful lot against his colleagues who I'm guessing may be in more 'normal' high street brands. Logically then, he could continue to be given a hard time for standing out by virtue of the fact that even people with pretty much zero interest in clothes can spot good shoes and make a comment on them. For him, the die has been cast now and pretty much everything he wears is going to be noticed because it seems to have become his defining trait as far as his colleagues are concerned.

Ok maybe the guy is coming across arrogantly here - but his essential message - he dresses 'well' and is given a hard time for it - there is actually no solution for it (in a non-uniform environment) and I am bit surprised this conclusion has so far been ignored.

Some have said words to the effect of "you must wear exactly the same garment combinations as everyone else" but my point is, even if he does comply with that advice, he is, let's assume if he has SF taste, still going to be "better dressed" than his colleagues - the problem has not really gone away because he will still stand out.

Or are we saying that he should basically not wear any of the SF type brands / styles, however "business casual appropriate" they may be, because he may stick out?

If so, then what is the point in owning nice clothes if you are scared to wear them?

 

[patrickBOOTH]



I share archetypal's troll suspicions, but assuming that your posts are genuine then you are supplying loads of supporting evidence for my hypothesis that your colleagues are giving you **** for your personality and not for your dress.

I am a management consultant by trade and so my work involves a lot of senior stakeholder contact with client executives, but also requires the support and cooperation of people at multiple levels in the organization.  As a consultant, there's a lot of negative stereotypes that you carry with you (you know, smarty-pants hot-shot overpaid sort of thing).  I imagine that recruits for junior rotational programs bring much of the same baggage.  Accepted best practice is to dress in a way that makes your client comfortable, however that may be, but in reality what you're attempting to do is present a certain demeanor of which your dress is simply a component.  Much more important is the way that you conduct yourself and the way that you treat people, both junior and senior.  

I've seen Partners pull analysts (most of whom, btw, have more or less identical resumes to rotational program types) off of engagements for being nasty to receptionists at the client, and I've always respected them more for it.  In your first post you said something about "dressing like a gentlemen."  Gentlemen do not dress in a particular way, but they do behave in particular ways - ways in which it appears you do not.

You sound like a consultant...

 

[jssdc]

You sound like a consultant...

Do you mean smarty-pants hot-shot overpaid sort of thing?

 

[Cantabrigian]



You sound like a consultant...

stakeholder contact

 

[slickback]

Do you mean smarty-pants hot-shot overpaid sort of thing?

I'm sure you can understand as a consultant that some people have a certain animosity/resentment that you are the "smarty-pants hot shot." In that position, I've noticed theres a certain amount of professional distance that needs to be kept not only to preserve that perception, but to avoid being taken advantage of.

I have to say however, that if you aren't clever, dressing to impress will work against you. I think it is an art to tactfully get what you want from other people in a sympathetic "help me help you" way, rather than a empathetic "we are equals" way.

There is a very fine line between a hot-shot and entry level pawn when you are in a rotational program. Some people dig their own graves by being everyones friend on day 1 and find themselves doing the work that no one else wants to do with their reasoning being something along the lines of how they need to "pay their dues." Interviewers do a good job of weeding these spreadsheet churners out in the first rounds, because they aren't worth the investment. In the end it comes down to the mutual benefit between the company and you. Company gets a young in-house manager in a cost effective way, you get a rocketship to the top and just have to hang on for the ride.

 

[JLibourel]



The 'problem' with this post, is there are grains of truth in what both 'sides' have said.

We are all here because we like good clothes. Mostly this means expensive clothes.

So should he "dumb down"?

Hard to say, but let's say yes he should lose the suits so he can fit in....

Next level down from a suit then - SF approved brands for "casual" wear such as Carmina, C&J, Alden alongside Incotex and handmade shirts.

Well, I hate to say it, but these garments will STILL stand out an awful lot against his colleagues who I'm guessing may be in more 'normal' high street brands. Logically then, he could continue to be given a hard time for standing out by virtue of the fact that even people with pretty much zero interest in clothes can spot good shoes and make a comment on them. For him, the die has been cast now and pretty much everything he wears is going to be noticed because it seems to have become his defining trait as far as his colleagues are concerned.

Ok maybe the guy is coming across arrogantly here - but his essential message - he dresses 'well' and is given a hard time for it - there is actually no solution for it (in a non-uniform environment) and I am bit surprised this conclusion has so far been ignored.

Some have said words to the effect of "you must wear exactly the same garment combinations as everyone else" but my point is, even if he does comply with that advice, he is, let's assume if he has SF taste, still going to be "better dressed" than his colleagues - the problem has not really gone away because he will still stand out.

Or are we saying that he should basically not wear any of the SF type brands / styles, however "business casual appropriate" they may be, because he may stick out?

If so, then what is the point in owning nice clothes if you are scared to wear them?

A very insightful post. I am somewhat dismayed at the number of men here giving this young fellow a rough time. After all, he is fighting the good fight. We also hear a lot about a "return to elegance" among the younger set. Are we then to fault him for being on the spearhead of this movement? If he sometimes comes across as a bit cocky, so be it. Most young men who make their mark have a considerable measure of self-confidence, i.e., cockiness.

A few other thoughts: The whole concept of "business casual" is so nebulous that it is almost impossible to prescribe with clarity. It may mean sport coat and tie, sport coat and open-necked shirt, a decent BD shirt paired with either high-end khakis or decent worsted slacks (which is how most posters seem to be defining it)...or it can mean "anything goes"--raggedy blue jeans, T-shirts with wolves on them, sneakers, etc. Based on my experience, "business casual" all too often sinks to the latter, lowest level.

If the OP were some sort of costume geek who came to work in a frock coat, wing collar and ascot, then I would say that he is being a self-destructively conspicuous freak. But that doesn't seem to be what he is doing, merely wearing conservative business dress to a place of business.

In fact, the whole spectrum of masculine attire between conservative business dress (or formal/semi-formal dress) and the T-shirts with wolves on them is a very nebulous business. Anyone cultivating casual masculine elegance will always be skating on the edge of costuming...or so it seems to me.

 

[archetypal_yuppie]



I'm sure you can understand as a consultant that some people have a certain animosity/resentment that you are the "smarty-pants hot shot." In that position, I've noticed theres a certain amount of professional distance that needs to be kept not only to preserve that perception, but to avoid being taken advantage of. 

I have to say however, that if you aren't clever, dressing to impress will work against you. I think it is an art to tactfully get what you want from other people in a sympathetic "help me help you" way, rather than a empathetic "we are equals" way.

There is a very fine line between a hot-shot and entry level pawn when you are in a rotational program. Some people dig their own graves by being everyones friend on day 1 and find themselves doing the work that no one else wants to do with their reasoning being something along the lines of how they need to "pay their dues." Interviewers do a good job of weeding these spreadsheet churners out in the first rounds, because they aren't worth the investment. In the end it comes down to the mutual benefit between the company and you. Company gets a young in-house manager in a cost effective way, you get a rocketship to the top and just have to hang on for the ride.

Let us know where you land at the end of your rotational program. Also let us know what industry, and roughly where your firm sits on the market share league table.

A lot of your commentary suggests that you think you occupy very rarified air... (ZOMG BUSINESS CLASSS AHHHHH!!!!) I think you might be surprised by what a skid-mark you are compared to some of the members of this forum.

 

[slickback]

Let us know where you land at the end of your rotational program. Also let us know what industry, and roughly where your firm sits on the market share league table.

A lot of your commentary suggests that you think you occupy very rarified air... (ZOMG BUSINESS CLASSS AHHHHH!!!!) I think you might be surprised by what a skid-mark you are compared to some of the members of this forum.

The only person that seems like a skid mark here, is you. I never came here looking to be superior, just for some advice from people with similar interests.

I am done with my 2 year program this July.

When I flew business class for the first time, I was flattered. It wasn't the 8 hour plane ride, but more so what it represented. Only about 2 years before that I used to stand on my feet for 8 hours a day working for minimum wage while juggling school and my own in home tech repair service. I took a picture of that moment for my personal diary as a memory and the larger picture it represented. Compared to what most 24 year old's are doing, business class isn't on a majority of their lists.

My first expensive watch, I bought as a gift to myself with my signing bonus; used. The explorer 2 GMT I bought used a year later as a gift to myself for earning an international assignment (something only bestowed upon 10% of the top performers within my rotational program). Where by the way, I wore suits everyday and it was quite the norm (Germany).

What may come off arrogant to you isn't what I am trying to portray. I have EARNED the right to be confident. I have made great sacrifices and overcome great obstacles to get where I am today. I've built up muscles that others that have an easier time don't have, and they will serve me for years to come.

You could interpret it as luck, or entitlement as well. Not being born in the United States and being a citizen now, I can say that I won the lottery when I was 5 years old.

Everyone has a sob story which usually goes along the lines of "rags to riches" and to tell you the truth it's quite the narrative. But I decide to hold that close to my vest and not post pics of me chasing golf balls at 15 years old to buy a pair of Nike airs.

 

[zippyh]

Have you considered that if others weren't giving you **** for how you dress that they'd be giving you an equal amount of **** for some other reason?
Giving you **** about how you dress might just be the low hanging fruit so to speak.

 

[Thanks SF (a new me)]



...pics of me chasing golf balls at 15 years old to buy a pair of Nike airs. 

my rolodex of corporate network is a result of lugging bags and chasing golf balls when I was 15.

 

[size 38R]

@slickback You have every right to be proud. though not everyone will be able to understand it.

I Carry a Gold pen for the exact same reason. It was a treat at the point when i finally learned what to do with my life. My first Brioni suit has a similar meaning.
From where i started, to where i am now? A drastic improvement. And it was never easy. - doing very well.

To be the guy who fights your way to the top, you need to be fighting with every moment. Like minded people will work with you, others will resent you. It is collateral damage.
Dress as best you can in each situation. while trying not to make others self concious. you want them working with you.

Many of us have a story, others just got planted in their life by parents and stayed that way. Never looking up, just riding the elevator.
Keep fighting.- Remember to be polite to people you meet, and gain every contact.

Wear what you like. (just always evolve for the better)
Be the ultimate in confidence, and always smile. Shake hands, and be generous. See you at the top.

Also, my boss is actually getting style advice from me. and we are all Trying to lift our game.-it's possible.

good luck with your endeavours.
38R

 

[johng70]

What may come off arrogant to you isn't what I am trying to portray. I have EARNED the right to be confident. I have made great sacrifices and overcome great obstacles to get where I am today. I've built up muscles that others that have an easier time don't have, and they will serve me for years to come.

See, that's your problem right there. You started a thread because your co-workers aren't reacting in a positive way to your behavior. While it may not be your intention to come off cocky or arrogant, we're saying that's how you are being perceived. Clearly a number of people hear have that impression and it's a good bet that, based upon you being made fun of at work, your co-workers share that impression.

There is zero wrong with being confident. But, what makes a lot of us chuckle is - you're only 24 but your posts indicate you've got everything figured out. You're 24. You've had 2-3 years experience. You haven't earned much of anything yet. I have no idea what obstacles you've overcome. It doesn't really matter. It's clear you are very driven to succeed professionally. There is nothing wrong with that either. What you should appreciate is the people you work with can either help you get there or hinder your progress. The rise up is a whole lot easier if others are helping you.

If a lot of people are mistaking the way you act and speak and write, the rest of the world is not going to change for your benefit. So, you should consider that changing some of your own behaviors will go a long way toward getting you the reaction you are after.

Your words here are rather condescending given all of your entire 2-3 years of experience in the corporate world. If, in just a few posts on this site, that arrogance/condescension shows through there's a very high likelihood it shows through in your real life. That attitude is the fuel for the comments you get. The wardrobe choices are just the gasoline that makes it flare up. And yes, wearing lavender shirts, navy pants and walnut shoes is definitely a style combination that will fuel the flames. God help if you add the sport coat on top of that.

You could, of course, decide that you don't care about other peoples' opinions and just ignore them. As I said though, the problem with that approach is your co-workers can hinder as well as help your rise to the top.