Does anyone still follow the NBA?

[matadorpoeta]

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

It's true; they do seem to control the flow of the game more than in other sports.

koji

they may not only control the flow, but the outcome. when a game is won and lost by 2 or 3 points and the refs are making calls seemingly at random, and no one knows what the rules are, there is potential for cheating.

i once saw a game that involved the new york knicks down by 1 or 2 points with a few seconds left. (i don't recall the other team.)

the knicks missed a jumper but their player got the rebound, got hacked, still got off a shot, missed it, got the rebound, got hacked AGAIN, still somehow got off a shot, missed it, and the game was over.

if that exact same play had happened at any other time in the game, the knicks would have had 2 foul shots. because it came at the end, the refs practically gifted the other team. the announcers did not make a big deal of it. they said, "well, you're not going to get that call with 2 seconds left." and that was it. i don't understand the reasoning for this, and i hate when people say "let them play." that's b.s. yes, let them play, but play by the rules. if you want player hacking each other, let them hack each other for 48 minutes, and put it in the rule book that anything goes.

 

[countdemoney]

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

You're missing some guy named Jordan. I think when it's all said and done, players such as Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Duncan, Nowitzki, Stoudamire, Howard and Nash will all be spoken of in as reverent tones.

koji


I picked my 12 because I wanted the best team. MJ doesn't fit that profile. Kobe doesn't either, same with Nash. And to a certain extent, neither does duncan whose unselfishness often hurts his team.

For more on the MJ myth, see questions #3 and #5.

https://www.nbrpa.com/news/editorial/11_17_06.aspx

And despite MJ's crowning in the media, coaches voted the big O as the player of the century.

 

[jpeirpont]

Originally Posted by countdemoney

I disagree on the skill level of many of todays players. Most just don't get team.

Here's my 12:

C- Russell
C- Wilt
C- Kareem
C- Shaq

F- Dr. J
F- Worthy
F- McHale
F- The Hawk

G- The Big O
G- Magic
G- Isaih
G- Reggie Miller

Didn't Jordan decimate three of the guards you have listed?

 

[jpeirpont]

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

You're missing some guy named Jordan. I think when it's all said and done, players such as Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Duncan, Nowitzki, Stoudamire, Howard and Nash will all be spoken of in as reverent tones.

koji
Will go down in history as the games most over rated player I hope.

 

[jpeirpont]

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

Rockets are my dark-horse team as well now that they're finally healthy again (30-10 record with both Yao and Mcgrady in the lineup).

koji

I think the Rockets have a very good chance of winning. I do not think The Mavs and Sun are championship material, they lack the toughness and a dominant back to the rim inside player. My dark horse is the the Heat I believe any team with Shaq and Wade can win if the get going.

 

[CyrusWong]

Originally Posted by jpeirpont

I think the Rockets have a very good chance of winning. I do not think The Mavs and Sun are championship material, they lack the toughness and a dominant back to the rim inside player. My dark horse is the the Heat I believe any team with Shaq and Wade can win if the get going.
I think Yao has to be tougher on defense.

 

[Thracozaag]

Originally Posted by countdemoney

I picked my 12 because I wanted the best team. MJ doesn't fit that profile. Kobe doesn't either, same with Nash. And to a certain extent, neither does duncan whose unselfishness often hurts his team.

For more on the MJ myth, see questions #3 and #5.

https://www.nbrpa.com/news/editorial/11_17_06.aspx

And despite MJ's crowning in the media, coaches voted the big O as the player of the century.

Jordan WAS over-hyped as a player, and I would agree with big O as being plalyer of the century (anyone who can average a triple double for a season gets my vote!), but to leave Jordan off any all-time team is just silly, imo. He's still the only player in NBA history to have won an MVP AND defensive player of the year in the same season.

koji

 

[Thracozaag]

Originally Posted by jpeirpont

I think the Rockets have a very good chance of winning. I do not think The Mavs and Sun are championship material, they lack the toughness and a dominant back to the rim inside player. My dark horse is the the Heat I believe any team with Shaq and Wade can win if the get going.

Miami is going to really have their hands full with Chicago, even if Wade was 100% healthy (Hinrich has given him fits in the past); if Ben Wallace can slow Shaq down, the Bulls have an excellent chance to pull the upset, me thinks.

koji

 

[countdemoney]

Originally Posted by jpeirpont

Didn't Jordan decimate three of the guards you have listed?

Not really. It was Pippen who was the bulls best player and the one who did all the defensive dirty work. His body slamming of an aging and injured Magic Johnson is what allowed the bulls to win. Had it not been for the laker injuries, they would have swept the bulls. As you may also recall it was Detroit and mr. Thomas who knocked Chicago out of the playoffs three years in a row.

The lakers-Bulls finals was the demise of the nba as it highlighted how rigged the series would be:

a. A player shall not hold, push, charge into, impede the progress of an oppo-nent by extending a hand, forearm, leg or knee or by bending the body into a posi-tion that is not normal. Contact that results in the re-routing of an opponent is a foul which must be called immediately.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12...av=ArticleList

If he weren't allowed to foul on every play, Jordan could consistently be taken off the dribble ala Michael Finley and Bryon Russell.

Jordan did beat Miller, but I don't have reggie on my team for defense, I have him as the outside threat.

 

[Thracozaag]

Originally Posted by countdemoney

Not really. It was Pippen who was the bulls best player and the one who did all the defensive dirty work. His body slamming of an aging and injured Magic Johnson is what allowed the bulls to win. Had it not been for the laker injuries, they would have swept the bulls. As you may also recall it was Detroit and mr. Thomas who knocked Chicago out of the playoffs three years in a row.

I hated Jordan (being a 76ers fan) as much as anyone, but c'mon, Pippen better than Jordan?
And Mr. Thomas also had Messers Dumars, Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman, Dantley--not to mention Johnson and Edwards off the bench--those were great Pistons teams.

koji

 

[visionology]

You are all making Jordan seem much worse than he is.

Greatest player of all time? Hard to say, different eras generate different types of plays. Unless you could have them all playing at the same time it is impossible to tell who would have been the best. Wilt was around in a time when players were much less athletic, were shorter, and where getting up to the rim was not as common. I don't think he or Bill Russell would have dominated in today's league like they did back then.

Back to Jordan. He was one of the most well rounded players of all time and was at the top of the league in a time of some of the modern greats. His supporting cast also changed throughout his 6 championships with the exception of Pippen who faded away into history without Jordan. He could shoot, dribble, steal, pass when needed, was clutch, and had a great free throw touch. I'm not sure what else he could have done.

There is no denying his stats.

- Lead league in scoring 10 times with a 31ppg average including 7 seasons in a row

-Five-time NBA MVP

-Ten-time All-NBA First Team selection

- 6 championships (notice they missed the championship the years he was out and as soon as he came back they won 2 more)

-Six-time NBA Finals Most Valuable Player

-1987-88 NBA Defensive Player of the Year and record nine-time NBA All-Defensive First Team selection

-Second in NBA history in steals (2,391), fourth in points (30,652) and in field-goals made (11,513), fifth in free-throws made (7,061), sixth in field-goals attempted (23,010) and eighth in free-throws attempted (8,448)

- Holds the NBA record for most consecutive games scoring in double-digits (842)

-Ranks as the all-time NBA Finals leader in three-pointers made (42), second in three-point attempts (114), third in points (1,176), fourth in steals (62), fifth in field-goals made (438), sixth in assists (209) and free-throws made (258), seventh in field-goals attempted (911) and eighth in free-throws attempted (320)

-Holds the NBA Playoffs record for highest career scoring average (33.4 ppg)

- Ranks as the all-time NBA Playoffs leader in field-goals attempted (4,497), free-throws made (1,463) and attempted (1,766), second in steals (376) and field-goals made (2,188), fifth in assists (1,022), seventh in three-point attempts (446) and ninth in three-pointers made (148)

-MVP of the 1988, 1996 and 1998 NBA All-Star Games

-Won the Slam Dunk Contest in 1987 and 1988

 

[matadorpoeta]

Originally Posted by visionology

You are all making Jordan seem much worse than he is.

Greatest player of all time? Hard to say, different eras generate different types of plays. Unless you could have them all playing at the same time it is impossible to tell who would have been the best. Wilt was around in a time when players were much less athletic, were shorter, and where getting up to the rim was not as common. I don't think he or Bill Russell would have dominated in today's league like they did back then.

Back to Jordan. He was one of the most well rounded players of all time and was at the top of the league in a time of some of the modern greats. His supporting cast also changed throughout his 6 championships with the exception of Pippen who faded away into history without Jordan. He could shoot, dribble, steal, pass when needed, was clutch, and had a great free throw touch. I'm not sure what else he could have done.

There is no denying his stats.

- Lead league in scoring 10 times with a 31ppg average including 7 seasons in a row

-Five-time NBA MVP

-Ten-time All-NBA First Team selection

- 6 championships (notice they missed the championship the years he was out and as soon as he came back they won 2 more)

-Six-time NBA Finals Most Valuable Player

-1987-88 NBA Defensive Player of the Year and record nine-time NBA All-Defensive First Team selection

-Second in NBA history in steals (2,391), fourth in points (30,652) and in field-goals made (11,513), fifth in free-throws made (7,061), sixth in field-goals attempted (23,010) and eighth in free-throws attempted (8,448)

- Holds the NBA record for most consecutive games scoring in double-digits (842)

-Ranks as the all-time NBA Finals leader in three-pointers made (42), second in three-point attempts (114), third in points (1,176), fourth in steals (62), fifth in field-goals made (438), sixth in assists (209) and free-throws made (258), seventh in field-goals attempted (911) and eighth in free-throws attempted (320)

-Holds the NBA Playoffs record for highest career scoring average (33.4 ppg)

- Ranks as the all-time NBA Playoffs leader in field-goals attempted (4,497), free-throws made (1,463) and attempted (1,766), second in steals (376) and field-goals made (2,188), fifth in assists (1,022), seventh in three-point attempts (446) and ninth in three-pointers made (148)

-MVP of the 1988, 1996 and 1998 NBA All-Star Games

-Won the Slam Dunk Contest in 1987 and 1988

no one is questioning his stats, but when you se him get preferential treatment from the refs, it changes your view of those stats. when they stole the ball from him cleanly, it was called a foul. when he drove to the basket and missed, it was called a foul (even when no one touched him.) so the question will always remain, in my mind, what would his stats have been if he were treated like the other players?

 

[bachbeet]

I'll weigh in on this MJ Debate. He was definitely one of the all-time greats. Just not the best. That was Magic. A winner everywhere he went and pretty much instantly. I saw the Big O too. Better than MJ. That's probably the ranking I'd make:

1. Magic
2. Big O
3. Jordan

When the only two ahead of you are those two, you don't have to complain. And I am NOT saying the gaps between them are huge.

BTW Koji, I do believe the Big O averaged a triple double for his career; not just one season.

 

[mrpologuy]

I have 2 extra tickets to Game 1 tonight, Pistons vs Magic and can't find anybody that wants to go. How lame is that?

 

[jpeirpont]

Originally Posted by matadorpoeta

no one is questioning his stats, but when you se him get preferential treatment from the refs, it changes your view of those stats. when they stole the ball from him cleanly, it was called a foul. when he drove to the basket and missed, it was called a foul (even when no one touched him.) so the question will always remain, in my mind, what would his stats have been if he were treated like the other players?

And by your estimation how many times did this happen per game?
I do agree MJ was given preferential treatment but I also believe all superstars were. I remember MJ had a move he performed from the top of the key where he'd grip the ball whilst crossing over, clearly a carry but for some reason it was never called.