Dinner Jacket/Tuxedo

[amerikajinda]

Question to our formal dress experts -- Can I wear a normal black tie (not black bowtie) with a tuxedo and a spread collar pleated white shirt? Or must I only wear a black bowtie with tuxedo?

thank you.

 

[Master Shake]

Originally Posted by amerikajinda

Question to our formal dress experts -- Can I wear a normal black tie (not black bowtie) with a tuxedo and a spread collar pleated white shirt? Or must I only wear a black bowtie with tuxedo?

thank you.
Please, don't. Bowtie only.

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by amerikajinda

Can I wear a normal black tie (not black bowtie) with a tuxedo ?
Only if you are depressed and plan to hang yourself from the chandeliers

 

[UnFacconable]

'nother question for the experts. I am now feeling remorseful over an MTM/bespoke dinner jacket I recently had made. I got a 2-button, peak lapel, single breasted, ventless, silk faced, jacket. I thought it was standard, but in retrospect, the choice of 2 buttons is looking like an error in judgment. Keeping in mind that most people don't know anything about formal wear and so this may be an academic point, I'd like to hear opinions as to whether (i) it's cool, some people like 2-button, even though 1-button is just better, (ii) I should get a tailor to 1-buttonize the jacket or (iii) 2-buttons are making a comeback and really are cool (ok, I'm sure this isn't the case, but I felt like I needed to pose a third option). I basically wanted something that was very normal and that I could wear for 20 years (assuming I don't gain more than 1 lb per year). In terms of stature, in case that helps, I'm average height and fairly slim.

I also went with a fairly heavy wool which I think drapes great and has this delicate sheen to it. Initially this thread made me question that decision, but that's not what truly troubles me.

Also, I'm hearing a lot of support for vests. I didn't have a vest made but wonder if at this point I should go back and try to have a vest made from the same fabric to have the versatility. Given that it's a 2-button jacket, would a vest look less elegant (given that the button stance is higher than a 1-button).

 

[j]

The button stance isn't necessarily higher on a 2-button jacket than on a 1-button. But if the stance is high, and the material is not lightweight, then a vest is going to be either pointless (won't show) or so high as to look odd (covering a lot of shirt), IMO, and probably will just serve to overheat you.

So I'd say don't bother.

Re the extra button, I don't think it would be worth the trouble/risk of reweaving the front to take out the buttonhole from the wool side, and from the silk side it would be even more risky if it's even possible at all. So just leave it - almost no one will know the difference, let alone care in this world of four-button notch lapel single vented dinner jackets.

 

[amerikajinda]

Originally Posted by Master Shake

Please, don't. Bowtie only.

Thank you (and Sator too) -- follow-up question now...

Can I wear a black and silver bow tie with a tuxedo without a matching cummerbund? Is a cummerbund required? Is a black & silver bow tie fine, or does the bowtie have to be pure black? Thanks in advance...

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by amerikajinda

Thank you (and Sator too) -- follow-up question now...

Can I wear a black and silver bow tie with a tuxedo without a matching cummerbund? Is a cummerbund required? Is a black & silver bow tie fine, or does the bowtie have to be pure black? Thanks in advance...

Black tie is called black tie because you wear a black tie. This business of trying to look hip by wearing a Mickey Mouse tie etc has been abused so much it looks worse than cheesy. There are ways of adding variation to the look that are less cheesy but only relatively so. The best way is wear the look well is fitted to perfection. The cut of the dinner jacket should be absolutely perfect along with the shirt. Finish it off with a boutonierre (a red carnation is classical) in the lapel and consider a Homburg hat.

 

[ortolan]

Originally Posted by Sator

Having the "show of ice" with four diamond studs is the height of gaudiness but goes perfectly well with a Kiton S150 dinner jacket. Don't forget to flash the gold teeth when you smile.

Actually, that's my friend's set, if you read carefully. It is quite impeccable and tasteful, in my view, not gaudy at all. The studs are small, and the diamonds glint ever so softly, but they are there nonetheless. Gold teeth? Sadly, I think you are presuming things that you do not see.

A gentleman who buys one bespoke suit and buys a bespoke dinner jacket is, in my view, a man who will care about refinement and his image at events where a dinner jacket is worn. Whether bespoke is pretentious or not, or even black tie events are pretentious or not, is another question altogether; but we're all on this board to discuss style.

I think it wise to invest in enough matching superior studs (4) to go with a bespoke dinner jacket, otherwise it will look like he found an odd set on ebay cheaply (never mind the fact it could be a family heirloom going back two generations). Not that eBay isn't a good place to look for a set of vintage cufflinks and studs, just that the set shouldn't look like it was bought on eBay and have only 2 or 3 studs

. Or one should go custom and save time, depending on one's budget. Precious metals and stones, go ahead, in my view. You are dressed to the nines and so is your companion, why stop at eight?

I would respectfully disagree with wearing the Homburg hat, unless you know the local style. You may become known as the man with the Homburg hat. That might be good or bad. Also, one should read my caution about unprotected flowers staining lapels.

In closing, agree with the comment that the white shirt should fit nicely (i.e. should not bunch up in front). Also, there are many black tie fabrics that can go into a black tie, if you are willing to choose carefully or find someone to make it for you.

Anyhow, cheers all, may you wear your tuxes in good health!

--ortolan

 

[j]

I may be missing something, but many stud sets only ever had three studs.

 

[ortolan]

Originally Posted by j

I may be missing something, but many stud sets only ever had three studs.

Agree - my point exactly, those tend to be the vintage sets, also the ones found on eBay. Some may also have lost a stud. More modern sets will have four.

However, one thing to make sure is that the cufflinks have two faces, and that often isn't done properly nowadays. They seem to skimp on metal and finishing.

You can often hide the missing stud(s), but why bother. The gentleman is going bespoke, after all.

--ortolan

 

[j]

Why is modern better?

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by ortolan

A gentleman who buys one bespoke suit and buys a bespoke dinner jacket is, in my view, a man who will care about refinement and his image at events where a dinner jacket is worn. Whether bespoke is pretentious or not, or even black tie events are pretentious or not, is another question altogether; but we're all on this board to discuss style.
BTW a Kiton is not unusually a bespoke garment - MTM perhaps rarely bespoke (unless you are foolish to pay $50 000 for their K50 suit).

 

[ortolan]

Originally Posted by Sator

BTW a Kiton is not unusually a bespoke garment - MTM perhaps rarely bespoke (unless you are foolish to pay $50 000 for their K50 suit).

Yes, that is true and mine is MTM as I have mentioned before. It seems a bit non-sequitur to go down this path, more a way of somehow discrediting my advice, which is honest, and well meaning. Perhaps I misinterpret your intentions, and forgive me if I have, but this is twice you have tried to mischaracterize my postings.

Furthermore, I am not in a position to say whether purchasing their K50 suit is foolish or not; it is certainly a luxury.

In that paragraph you quoted, I was referring to the original gentleman who started this thread; that is the man who is trying to get a bespoke tux, the very same man that who we are, ostensibly, trying to give good advice.

--ortolan

 

[Manton]

1) I have never had a flower stain the underside of my lapel, ever. Maybe I'm just lucky.

2) I prefer the old fashioned look of fewer studs. My marcella evening shirt takes three. If I had it to do over, I might opt for two. Old fashioned wing collar shirts often took only one. My RTW wing collar shirt takes four.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by j

So just leave it - almost no one will know the difference, let alone care in this world of four-button notch lapel single vented dinner jackets.


You say this like it's a bad thing.

Would you prefer wearing a well cut 4 notch lapel single vented dinner jacket in luxurious fabric or a rental in 100% dacron polyester that was otherwise "correct" in every detail?