Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[Crit_Obs]

Comments on build quality are anecdotal at best since both manufacturers obviously know what they are doing, this is not something that would feature very prominently if it was me trying to pick one or the other... On my current pair of Nick's the Quabaug heel on the left shoe has not been trimmed flush with the leather stack on the side facing the middle of the sole... Doesn't bother me and no one would ever know (as it's not visible), but there you go as far as defects are concerned.

Reasons to pick Nick's:

1. somewhat different choices of leather; their olive CXL is popular and I'm a fan of Seidel domain leathers

2. being different - cos everyone's wearing White's right?

3. preferring their arch support - I haven't heard anyone cite this as their reason but it's doable, although after breaking in, the difference is not massive (it's not massive to begin with)

At the end of the day, while I think competition is good and trying different manufacturers widens one's horizons, White's deserve lots of respect (and probably the vast majority of my footwear budget going forward) for actively engaging the community here and elsewhere and for being very honest and upfront about what they do. We are very fortunate to have guys like sambam and quack attack actively participate in this thread.

Edit: from us Europeans' point of view, Nick's are not doing themselves any favors by pricing their international shipping at real "are you kidding me?" levels.

 

[hoppy_IPA]

@miggyramone
i think Nicks are sharply made. they have great leather options & as stated build a very similar boot. one difference is with Nicks, you have pay extra to have them hand welted. White's does this with all nearly all their boots standard. To me this speaks volumes about the two company's personalities. As you may know, Nicks pedigree is of the White's bloodline similar to Franks, etc. From what I understand, many of the cobblers at any of these makers has likely spent time in more than 1 shop. They are all in close proximity to one another. You'd be happy with either for sure as they are both top shelf. Nicks offers a BEAUTIFUL English Tan leather as well as some nice Horsehide. Nicks also does a cleaner toe cap IMHO than White's - it's about a 1/4" to 1/2" shorter and just looks better to my eye. Ive requested this from White's on a couple builds but this is one area i haven't gotten any traction on.

I can tell you this, White's UNEQUIVOCALLY has better customer support than Nicks and its not even close. If you do go with Nicks, id strongly advise you to order though Bakers with Kyle than directly from Nicks.

 

[miggyramone]

@miggyramone
i think Nicks are sharply made. they have great leather options & as stated build a very similar boot. one difference is with Nicks, you have pay extra to have them hand welted. White's does this with all nearly all their boots standard. To me this speaks volumes about the two company's personalities. As you may know, Nicks pedigree is of the White's bloodline similar to Franks, etc. From what I understand, many of the cobblers at any of these makers has likely spent time in more than 1 shop. They are all in close proximity to one another. You'd be happy with either for sure as they are both top shelf. Nicks offers a BEAUTIFUL English Tan leather as well as some nice Horsehide. Nicks also does a cleaner toe cap IMHO than White's - it's about a 1/4" to 1/2" shorter and just looks better to my eye. Ive requested this from White's on a couple builds but this is one area i haven't gotten any traction on.

I can tell you this, White's UNEQUIVOCALLY has better customer support than Nicks and its not even close. If you do go with Nicks, id strongly advise you to order though Bakers with Kyle than directly from Nicks.

I've kinda noticed that. Through email, they were fine. They fully admitted to the 55 last of the Robert being the same as the Semi Dress from Whites. Over the phone though, not so much. I asked a question and the guy who answered the phone sounded annoyed and kept telling me to just go to the FAQ page. I was going to go through Baker's but I want a celeastic toe andt there is no listing for that option.

The people at Baker's are amazing BTW. Really friendly and helpful even when I was being an annoying customer.

 

[Sledge42]

I am going to attempt to be as professional as possible with my reply re: Nick's
1. White's offers a much better range of options for a build than Nick's.

2. Kyle at Baker's is THE MAN. Answers every question, even though I thought it was my last, and I have the "One more syndrome." Not only answers, but then says "Call me if you need more help or have more questions."

3. sambam is a 30 year boot-maker for White's and is on this thread, chimes in- answers questions. He takes pride in his work and it shows in every response. He is partially here to listen to us- What do we like? What do we want to see? Because of the interactions, some things have been implemented.

4. Nick's charges you $45 to read a fit-sheet where White's wants the proper fit and charges you $0. I think charging to review a fit sheet is greedy.

5. The final nail to me was when Baker's posted up a recently created boot that they worked with a fellow member here. The member purchased his own leather, worked with White's and Baker's and they were drool-worthy boot p*rn. Baker's posted the picture of them on Instagram and whomever runs the Nick's Boots IG account replied to the post "Don't wear them outside *wink*"
It was a desperate and pathetic swipe at a beautiful build. So Nick's won't get any money from me.

 

[miggyramone]

I am going to attempt to be as professional as possible with my reply re: Nick's
1. White's offers a much better range of options for a build than Nick's.

2. Kyle at Baker's is THE MAN. Answers every question, even though I thought it was my last, and I have the "One more syndrome." Not only answers, but then says "Call me if you need more help or have more questions."

3. sambam is a 30 year boot-maker for White's and is on this thread, chimes in- answers questions. He takes pride in his work and it shows in every response. He is partially here to listen to us- What do we like? What do we want to see? Because of the interactions, some things have been implemented.

4. Nick's charges you $45 to read a fit-sheet where White's wants the proper fit and charges you $0. I think charging to review a fit sheet is greedy.

5. The final nail to me was when Baker's posted up a recently created boot that they worked with a fellow member here. The member purchased his own leather, worked with White's and Baker's and they were drool-worthy boot p*rn. Baker's posted the picture of them on Instagram and whomever runs the Nick's Boots IG account replied to the post "Don't wear them outside *wink*"
It was a desperate and pathetic swipe at a beautiful build. So Nick's won't get any money from me.

Damn dude. You make a good case. Again, Kyle, Brandon and everybody who answers the phone at Baker's are great. I regularly bothered them and asked questions before ordering my Horse Hide Semi Dress White's and they were always really nice and happy to help.

 

[Phalanx]

It's kind of a shame that White's, Nicks and Wesco offer such similar boots really. What tipped me in White's direction was the almost legendary status Kyle and Brandon have at Baker shoes. They afforded me the same level of service when I live across the pond!

 

[Legal Eagles]

I am going to attempt to be as professional as possible with my reply re: Nick's

5. The final nail to me was when Baker's posted up a recently created boot that they worked with a fellow member here. The member purchased his own leather, worked with White's and Baker's and they were drool-worthy boot p*rn. Baker's posted the picture of them on Instagram and whomever runs the Nick's Boots IG account replied to the post "Don't wear them outside *wink*"
It was a desperate and pathetic swipe at a beautiful build. So Nick's won't get any money from me.

I think you were very diplomatic... and I was not going to respond, but what the heck... you are 100% correct.

Nick's in every interaction I have had with them comes across as "snarky"...your examples above regarding the comments on Instagram are spot on. They have also tried to make as much hay as possible about the fact that White's is owned by a Japanese company... but they go overboard taking constant shots and trying to overemphasize the point that Nick's is American Owned... we get it... we really do. But it is not like Nick's has not changed hands and suffered defections (Frank's) either. It is like the line from Hamlet, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks". It crosses the line from marketing to cheap shots.

I also agree about charging for the fit sheet and hand welting... what gives with that.

It just seems that every time I deal with Nick's they come across as if I am doing them a favor by buying their product, and should be grateful for any service I get. I tried to get them to build a Manito Oxford with external heel counter, and I felt as though they wanted me to get on my knees and kiss their ring to get them to deal with me. The comments about overseas shipping bear out their opinion of themselves.

Both companies make great boots, but I will give my business to the company who seems to appreciate it.

 

[barbellhacks]

they go overboard taking constant shots and trying to overemphasize the point that Nick's is American Owned... we get it... we really do.

Yeah, this emphasis in the marketing is really off-putting.

Everytime I see the "#americanowned" thing I want to reply with: #Idon'tcareaboutSteveMowesnationality.

 

[miggyramone]

I think you were very diplomatic... and I was not going to respond, but what the heck... you are 100% correct.

Nick's in every interaction I have had with them comes across as "snarky"...your examples above regarding the comments on Instagram are spot on. They have also tried to make as much hay as possible about the fact that White's is owned by a Japanese company... but they go overboard taking constant shots and trying to overemphasize the point that Nick's is American Owned... we get it... we really do. But it is not like Nick's has not changed hands and suffered defections (Frank's) either. It is like the line from Hamlet, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks". It crosses the line from marketing to cheap shots.

I also agree about charging for the fit sheet and hand welting... what gives with that.

It just seems that every time I deal with Nick's they come across as if I am doing them a favor by buying their product, and should be grateful for any service I get. I tried to get them to build a Manito Oxford with external heel counter, and I felt as though they wanted me to get on my knees and kiss their ring to get them to deal with me. The comments about overseas shipping bear out their opinion of themselves.

Both companies make great boots, but I will give my business to the company who seems to appreciate it.

This has nothing to do with my decision, though I am leaning towards the BH, but did the quality really go down with White's after the buyout? A lot of older fans of White's on youtube and random forums claim so.

 

[Legal Eagles]

This has nothing to do with my decision, though I am leaning towards the BH, but did the quality really go down with White's after the buyout? A lot of older fans of White's on youtube and random forums claim so.

As a long time White's wearer, I saw no change in overall quality after the buyout... people may have been looking for things to complain about and may have been more critical, but I did not see anything change.

According to @sambam the Japanese owners leave White's alone to keep doing what White's does best. The boots are still made by American workers in Spokane. In fact, if you look at the prices White's go for in Japan, as well as expectations from the Japanese market in general for handmade clothing, ABC Mart would have a fit if White's tried to lessen their quality or cut corners... Japan is not China or Vietnam when it comes to quality manufacturing.

What I have seen is that as White's moved into the fashion market the consumers became a little more picky about little details that a smokejumper, logger, construction worker, or farmer could not care less about... I myself have been guilty of this... but that is the nature of the fashion marketplace.
TL;DR: In my experience White's quality did not change after the buyout, but fashion customers may have gotten a little more picky... not to mention having the ability to share every detail of their new boots online to be obsessed about by people like us who care way too much about boots.

If there ever were a problem... and no one is perfect... I have never seen White's (or Baker's) fail to make it right...

 

[miggyramone]

Damn dude. Good stuff. Thanks for your input.

 

[justsayno]

Another point worth raising, is that Nicks would not make a lace to toe boot. Too much leather they claimed.

 

[birinoah]

After farrrrr to much indecision, I placed my order! Went with a pair of brown HH plain unstructured toe MP boots on half-lug and brown dress 7 inch unstructured plain toe bounty hunters on 430. Now for the wait...

 

[miggyramone]

Sorry guys, don't mean to spam this thread.

Outside of the heel counter, is the Semi Dress just a 5" version of the Bounty Hunter? Is the arch support the same between the two?

 

[Phalanx]

Sorry guys, don't mean to spam this thread.

Outside of the heel counter, is the Semi Dress just a 5" version of the Bounty Hunter? Is the arch support the same between the two?

The last is what defines the arch-support of the boot, not the model; this is especially confusing because you can choose which last you want on each model.

The semi dress is a 5 inch boot with no heel counter (as you say). The semi dress last has quite a pronounced arch-support and is arguably the most popular last White's offers. Lots of people are loving the MP's Barrie last too although that doesn't have quite such a pronounced arch I think.

So really, you've got a huge range of options at your disposal. I think you need to decide which last you want first and work from there.