Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[ThatDudeOrion]

Thank you for the kind reply. I love how the Engineer boots look. I used to own "lower end" Frye's Engineer boots but didn't like the way they fitted and ended up selling them on Ebay. You hit the nail on the head with lace-less design and different fit (than, say, bounty hunters).
I talked to Kyle about a week ago and he mentioned that the shaft on White's Nomads is more "loose" fitting than Wesco Engineer boots which is a bummer since Engineer boots look great as motorcycle boots. I will order black oil-tan packers or Bounty Hunters with lineman patch but still waiting on four pairs of White's lol.

Warm Regards

As usual Kyle is correct about the shaft size. Particularly so if we're comparing Nomads to Mister Lous. Also, Wesco has the ability, for a sizeable upcharge, to adjust the shaft diameter on custom orders. However, I find that with the Mister Lou pattern this is completely unnecessary for my average? size legs. I know this is the White's thread, but I have to plug the Mister Lou. I have wasted thousands on all manner of engineer boots, ranging from Chippewa and Red Wing up to Role Club and Clinch, and IMO the Mister Lou is the best. I have a pair in the black Horween horsehide. and the only 2 MINOR nits I can pick are 1) when Wesco says soft toe, it's not exactly soft, there's still something in there, it's not celastic exactly, maybe jut a plain canvas toe puff or something, but it's not a TRUE soft toe like White's, but this has been an issue I've had with Wesco MP-toe boots that pre-dates the Mister Lou pattern by a long time. and 2) This pair was my first Horween Horsehide boot that I put some hard wear into, and I'm not completely blown away by the leather, which again has already been addressed or could be avoided as Wesco now offers, through a variety of retailers, the Mister Lou boot in many other leathers, and have even switched to an Italian tannery for the black horsehide, idk if it's better or worse, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick up another pair, if I thought i "needed" them lol. I would certainly give them a go, before giving up on the romantic appeal of the engineer boot altogether.

 

[Jimk4003]

As usual Kyle is correct about the shaft size. Particularly so if we're comparing Nomads to Mister Lous. Also, Wesco has the ability, for a sizeable upcharge, to adjust the shaft diameter on custom orders. However, I find that with the Mister Lou pattern this is completely unnecessary for my average? size legs. I know this is the White's thread, but I have to plug the Mister Lou. I have wasted thousands on all manner of engineer boots, ranging from Chippewa and Red Wing up to Role Club and Clinch, and IMO the Mister Lou is the best. I have a pair in the black Horween horsehide. and the only 2 MINOR nits I can pick are 1) when Wesco says soft toe, it's not exactly soft, there's still something in there, it's not celastic exactly, maybe jut a plain canvas toe puff or something, but it's not a TRUE soft toe like White's, but this has been an issue I've had with Wesco MP-toe boots that pre-dates the Mister Lou pattern by a long time. and 2) This pair was my first Horween Horsehide boot that I put some hard wear into, and I'm not completely blown away by the leather, which again has already been addressed or could be avoided as Wesco now offers, through a variety of retailers, the Mister Lou boot in many other leathers, and have even switched to an Italian tannery for the black horsehide, idk if it's better or worse, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick up another pair, if I thought i "needed" them lol. I would certainly give them a go, before giving up on the romantic appeal of the engineer boot altogether.

I'll second the Mr Lou, they're great boots.

When it comes to PNW Engineers, Wesco are a no-brainer for me. They were one of the brands that literally pioneered the Engineer boot back in the day (the Wikipedia entry for Engineer boots mentions the brand by name), and they're still made in the same factory in much the same way today. The narrower shaft of the Mr Lou helps them fit under jeans without creating a ridge half way up your shins too.

I've got a couple of pairs of boots with the MP toe, and whilst I think they genuinely are unstructrured, the upper leather combined with a thick leather liner makes them feel a bit less 'soft' than some other soft toe boots.

 

[chicagoan2016]

As usual Kyle is correct about the shaft size. Particularly so if we're comparing Nomads to Mister Lous. Also, Wesco has the ability, for a sizeable upcharge, to adjust the shaft diameter on custom orders. However, I find that with the Mister Lou pattern this is completely unnecessary for my average? size legs. I know this is the White's thread, but I have to plug the Mister Lou. I have wasted thousands on all manner of engineer boots, ranging from Chippewa and Red Wing up to Role Club and Clinch, and IMO the Mister Lou is the best. I have a pair in the black Horween horsehide. and the only 2 MINOR nits I can pick are 1) when Wesco says soft toe, it's not exactly soft, there's still something in there, it's not celastic exactly, maybe jut a plain canvas toe puff or something, but it's not a TRUE soft toe like White's, but this has been an issue I've had with Wesco MP-toe boots that pre-dates the Mister Lou pattern by a long time. and 2) This pair was my first Horween Horsehide boot that I put some hard wear into, and I'm not completely blown away by the leather, which again has already been addressed or could be avoided as Wesco now offers, through a variety of retailers, the Mister Lou boot in many other leathers, and have even switched to an Italian tannery for the black horsehide, idk if it's better or worse, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick up another pair, if I thought i "needed" them lol. I would certainly give them a go, before giving up on the romantic appeal of the engineer boot altogether.

The narrower shaft of the Mr Lou helps them fit under jeans without creating a ridge half way up your shins too.

@ThatDudeOrion @Jimk4003 Thank you gentlemen, Wesco Mister Lou is going to be the next pair of PNW boots for me.
How is the arch support on these? I would love to get close to 55 last or even more.

 

[Jimk4003]

@ThatDudeOrion @Jimk4003 Thank you gentlemen, Wesco Mister Lou is going to be the next pair of PNW boots for me.
How is the arch support on these? I would love to get close to 55 last or even more.

Arch support on the MP1339 last (the last the Mr Lou is built on) is very comfortable, but it's not White's 55 last high.

Arch support on Engineers is always a compromise; you want the boot to fit well, but you also need to be able to get your feet in and out. If you put a lot of arch support under the foot, you're also going to raise the instep. That's what causes the 'White's bite' you sometimes hear people complain about, where the laces dig into the top of the instep when the boots are new.

With Engineers, there are no laces to secure the instep, so designing them is a compromise between making comfortable boots, and making boots that people can actually get on and off. Raise the arch too much, and there's not enough space between the footbed and the instep to actually get your foot in.

Getting the foot past the instep when putting them on is probably the number one issue people complain about with Engineers, and so you're never likely to see any with truly dramatic levels of arch support; it'd simply make the boots too hard to put on for too many people.

To be honest though, you don't tend to wear Engineers in scenarios where loads of arch support is necessary. They were originally designed for railway engineers who spent all day stood in front of a furnace; they're not designed for carrying heavy packs or trekking up mountains.

Wesco are super flexible when it comes to customising boots though, and can add what they call a 'midsole wrap' to increase arch support if required. I'm sure Kyle at Bakers can sort you out if you tell him what you need.

 

[ThatDudeOrion]

Arch support ...

Many moons ago, there was a very limited run collaboration between Rios of Mercedes and Baker's where Rios produced horsehide engineer boot uppers that Baker's lasted/welted/bottomed on the 4811 last. By the time i found out about it, they had sold out of my size, but I was able to get the pair a half size up from my ideal. they were predictably too long, but it was a very cool experience to try them out, as there really isn't any engineer boots out there with legit levels of arch support, with White's and Wesco's coming the closest. I had inquired with Kyle about making another pair, but there was a considerable difference in price between snagging the last of the 'stock' builds and having one custom made especially for me. I've also asked White's in the past if they could build a Nomad on a different last (55, 4811) etc. and they declined. IIRC they cited an issue with the lasts themselves, where those lasts for the lace up boots aren't able to be removed from the pull on boot after it's built around it, something about how some of the boot lasts are hinged and some aren't or they're all hinged, but only the regular Nomad last bends enough degrees to pull it out of the boot. Lending credence to the idea that the human foot may have some issues going in, unless some compromises are made. I for one know that even with the plastic bag trick, I could not get my right foot (the slightly larger of the 2) into the Lofgren engineers that were the appropriate size. Clinch was a similar story, but not quite as bad, didn't technically need the plastic bag, though I somewhat expected that given the appropriately named Classic Narrow last they were built on. For me, the Mister Lou strikes that perfect balance between wide enough shaft and tall enough instep to get them on easily, but not so wide they fit sloppy and balloon out your pant legs.

 

[wordfool]

From my own experience, both Viberg and Wesco are of a higher quality than White's, and whilst these brands can absolutely ship a dud product from time-to-time, they at least appear to be aiming for a higher level of quality than White's are. Several White's customers on this thread (me included) have had to return multiple pairs, and statistically, that shouldn't be as likely as it seems to be.

I own or have owned all brands mentioned and 100% agree with this statement.

Just heard back from Baker's that my latest returned pair are a bit too messed up for them to want to try and repair in-house, so off to White's they go for either repair or rebuild. I think if I order another pair of PNW boots I will give Wesco a go. After all, the Wesco build time is probably shorter than the time for White's to build the same order twice

Ah well, maybe I'll see the boots before the end of the year although I suspect the chances are slim to none if a rebuild is called for, rush or no rush. Baker's FTW! White's not so much.

 

[Jimk4003]

Just heard back from Baker's that my latest returned pair are a bit too messed up for them to want to try and repair in-house, so off to White's they go for either repair or rebuild. I think if I order another pair of PNW boots I will give Wesco a go. After all, the Wesco build time is probably shorter than the time for White's to build the same order twice

Ah well, maybe I'll see the boots before the end of the year although I suspect the chances are slim to none if a rebuild is called for, rush or no rush. Baker's FTW! White's not so much.

Have you also considered the likes of Nick's, Frank's or JK Boots?

Wesco are great, but the above manufacturers are probably more similar to White's in terms of their construction and lasts, so if you've already got something that fits well from White's, you're probably more likely to find a direct equivalent from one of the other Spokane brands.

Just food for thought.

 

[wordfool]

Have you also considered the likes of Nick's, Frank's or JK Boots?

Wesco are great, but the above manufacturers are probably more similar to White's in terms of their construction and lasts, so if you've already got something that fits well from White's, you're probably more likely to find a direct equivalent from one of the other Spokane brands.

Just food for thought.

The safety blanket of Baker's is what makes me think of Wesco, but Nick's is certainly another option with arguably more varied leathers, shorter build times, and the same 55 last as I'm used to with White's (although I wonder how similar it is in reality). There are a few options oddly missing from the MTO configurator on the Nick's site, but I'm sure a quick phone call would sort them out.

TBH I'm probably all maxed out with PNW boots for the foreseeable future. Six pair of White's (once I get the rebuild of the latest pair) is more than I really need, but I guess "need" and "want" are sometimes a bit too interchangeable, especially if a new leather comes on the scene.

 

[ThatDudeOrion]

Anybody know if White’s will build a 300 oxford on either of the 2 packer lasts?

 

[Tweedboy]

The safety blanket of Baker's is what makes me think of Wesco, but Nick's is certainly another option with arguably more varied leathers, shorter build times, and the same 55 last as I'm used to with White's (although I wonder how similar it is in reality). There are a few options oddly missing from the MTO configurator on the Nick's site, but I'm sure a quick phone call would sort them out.

TBH I'm probably all maxed out with PNW boots for the foreseeable future. Six pair of White's (once I get the rebuild of the latest pair) is more than I really need, but I guess "need" and "want" are sometimes a bit too interchangeable, especially if a new leather comes on the scene.

I have recently bought two pairs of Whites and a pair of Nicks. Although I have no major problems on any of them I think the finish on the Nicks is far better. Around they feel like more care has been taken. Shuyler who posts on the Nicks forum was very helpful. All the boots are on a 55 last. The Nicks feel like they come up tighter to me on the width. Not enough to make me change size I wouldn’t have said.

 

[ABMTL]

Hey Folks,

Does anyone have any insights on the "normal" build time for White's at the moment, as well as a decent estimate on what would qualify as a "rush" build time?

I am a first time White's buyer. I placed my initial order through Baker's back in the beginning of April. I was told that build times were around 10-12 weeks. That worked because I had American family visiting me in Canada a couple of times in the summer (otherwise I'd have to pay expensive shipping and customs).

I started to get worried in late August when I still hadn't heard anything, so I called Baker's to check about the boots. It turned out that the order had somehow been dropped from White's radar. The boots had never been started and it was only my call that alerted Baker's/White's to the problem.

Kyle felt very bad about the situation and actually offered to make me a free pair of boots to make it up to me, but I felt like that was too extreme/generous, and I want the people who are devoted to this valuable craft to do well, so I turned him down and just said I'd be happy if I got the boots soon and if they were in good shape. He said he'd make sure they were put in as a rush order.

That was around September 10th. I would have thought a rush order was a couple of weeks, not over two months. (Especially considering the initial SNAFU.) I don't want to be a difficult customer, so I'm asking you guys: does this make sense? Are other people noticing similar delays? Is there a major (perhaps COVID related) backlog at the factory or something?

Thank you in advance for your input,
AB

 

[Luscombe]

Hey Folks,

Does anyone have any insights on the "normal" build time for White's at the moment, as well as a decent estimate on what would qualify as a "rush" build time?

I am a first time White's buyer. I placed my initial order through Baker's back in the beginning of April. I was told that build times were around 10-12 weeks. That worked because I had American family visiting me in Canada a couple of times in the summer (otherwise I'd have to pay expensive shipping and customs).

I started to get worried in late August when I still hadn't heard anything, so I called Baker's to check about the boots. It turned out that the order had somehow been dropped from White's radar. The boots had never been started and it was only my call that alerted Baker's/White's to the problem.

Kyle felt very bad about the situation and actually offered to make me a free pair of boots to make it up to me, but I felt like that was too extreme/generous, and I want the people who are devoted to this valuable craft to do well, so I turned him down and just said I'd be happy if I got the boots soon and if they were in good shape. He said he'd make sure they were put in as a rush order.

That was around September 10th. I would have thought a rush order was a couple of weeks, not over two months. (Especially considering the initial SNAFU.) I don't want to be a difficult customer, so I'm asking you guys: does this make sense? Are other people noticing similar delays? Is there a major (perhaps COVID related) backlog at the factory or something?

Thank you in advance for your input,
AB

Call and talk to Kyle.
Tell him how you feel, exactly like you shared here and ask for his help to get the boots finished so your family can deliver them to you.

Whites did the same thing with two of my orders, either lost or stopped without telling anyone. Kyle made it right.

 

[ABMTL]

Thank you for the quick reply, Luscombe. I did write him this Friday (and he said he'd look into it and get back to me soon). I was just thinking that maybe I should see how unusual this is based on other people's experiences, because I really don't want to be pushy if the company is struggling or something.

 

[Alaskaking]

Hey Folks,

Does anyone have any insights on the "normal" build time for White's at the moment, as well as a decent estimate on what would qualify as a "rush" build time?

I am a first time White's buyer. I placed my initial order through Baker's back in the beginning of April. I was told that build times were around 10-12 weeks. That worked because I had American family visiting me in Canada a couple of times in the summer (otherwise I'd have to pay expensive shipping and customs).

I started to get worried in late August when I still hadn't heard anything, so I called Baker's to check about the boots. It turned out that the order had somehow been dropped from White's radar. The boots had never been started and it was only my call that alerted Baker's/White's to the problem.

Kyle felt very bad about the situation and actually offered to make me a free pair of boots to make it up to me, but I felt like that was too extreme/generous, and I want the people who are devoted to this valuable craft to do well, so I turned him down and just said I'd be happy if I got the boots soon and if they were in good shape. He said he'd make sure they were put in as a rush order.

That was around September 10th. I would have thought a rush order was a couple of weeks, not over two months. (Especially considering the initial SNAFU.) I don't want to be a difficult customer, so I'm asking you guys: does this make sense? Are other people noticing similar delays? Is there a major (perhaps COVID related) backlog at the factory or something?

Thank you in advance for your input,
AB

Howdy, I had a pair that needed to be remade on delivery-the initial “rush order” was very fast- 3-4 weeks, but the wrong pair was made. The second rush order took another 8-9 weeks to arrive.
those came out great, I call them my grail pair, mostly due to the 9 month wait!?
Good luck!

 

[ABMTL]

Oy, that's kind of what I'm most afraid of--much more than delays, even. I just can't afford (with customs and shipping) to be sending things back and forth.