Crockett & Jones - Whats the big deal?

[Fred G. Unn]

Ok, with 11 pairs and a 12th on the way it's safe to say I'm a bit of a C&J fan. BUT, I've only paid retail price for one of those pairs and that was actually a gift from my wife. I think people are overlooking the myriad of different ways you can get C&Js down around to the price of AEs. I also own Vass and AS Exclusive and I'll agree with @diadem that once you get up into the handgrade price bracket, those are probably better values. I doubt that many of us around here are paying retail though.

Just a sampling of what I've paid:
Lowndes, $595 gift from wife, only retail price purchase from NYC store
Hallam, $400ish Edwards of Manchester sale
Westbourne, $400ish Robert Old sale
RL Marlow, $400ish RL 40+15% sale
Tetbury, $399 Barneys sale (incoming)
Osterley (handgrade), Yoox $395
Clifford (handgrade), Barneys sale $365 I think
Winchester, C&J for S&H, $385 - $50 coupon = $335
Wicklow, Barneys sale $269
Coniston, BBBF version, $250 eBay BB outlet flipper (new)
suede driver loafer, $195 NYC store sample sale
RL Prestbury, $99 DSW (this was a steal!)

I actually think C&J when you can get them on sale is one of the better shoe values out there, along with AS Exclusive when AFPOS has a sale, and Vass especially when NMWA has them discounted. I wouldn't pay retail for C&Js though.

EDIT: Typo, Conistons are BBBF.

 

[simian]

Ok, with 11 pairs and a 12th on the way it's safe to say I'm a bit of a C&J fan. BUT, I've only paid retail price for one of those pairs and that was actually a gift from my wife. I think people are overlooking the myriad of different ways you can get C&Js down around to the price of AEs. I also own Vass and AS Exclusive and I'll agree with @diadem that once you get up into the handgrade price bracket, those are probably better values. I doubt that many of us around here are paying retail though.

Just a sampling of what I've paid:
Lowndes, $595 gift from wife, only retail price purchase from NYC store
Hallam, $400ish Edwards of Manchester sale
Westbourne, $400ish Robert Old sale
RL Marlow, $400ish RL 40+15% sale
Tetbury, $399 Barneys sale (incoming)
Osterley (handgrade), Yoox $395
Clifford (handgrade), Barneys sale $365 I think
Winchester, C&J for S&H, $385 - $50 coupon = $335
Wicklow, Barneys sale $269
Coniston, BBBB version, $250 eBay BB outlet flipper (new)
suede driver loafer, $195 NYC store sample sale
RL Prestbury, $99 DSW (this was a steal!)

I actually think C&J when you can get them on sale is one of the better shoe values out there, along with AS Exclusive when AFPOS has a sale, and Vass especially when NMWA has them discounted.

Agree with this: C&J at 30% off can be good value. Not at ex-VAT retail. Exactly my point about them being overpriced.

 

[benjamin831]

You could've gotten a lot nicer shoes with all that money you spent on C&J.

 

[EliodA]



You could've gotten a lot nicer shoes with all that money you spent on C&J.

How? I'd like to know. Can you name brands, model names and prices please? For 11 pairs, like the poster above. Thank you.

 

[Fred G. Unn]



You could've gotten a lot nicer shoes with all that money you spent on C&J.

How? I'd like to know. Can you name brands, model names and prices please? For 11 pairs, like the poster above. Thank you.

I'll play along, and it was my post. A positive for C&J is that they are easy to find discounted and they hit a quality/price sweet spot for my budget. That said there are other options too:

AS Exclusive when AFPOS has their 25% off code once or twice a year. My AS Moores came out to around $412 shipped w/trees! That's one of the best deals around. NMWA has AS for $460ish when they've had sales too. The Peal branded AS shoes are $450ish when BB has a 30% corporate deal, and occasionally they are even 50% off on sale.

Vass for under $600 with trees when NMWA has a sale is a really exceptional deal. I've gotten 2 pairs from them.

Aldens on sale. Occaisionally a J Crew code will work, Haberdash has had them 30% off (I think), Shoe Mart seconds, etc. Lots of other places too. Downside is quality control is probably not as consistent as C&J.

Carmina hits this range too. My wife has a pair of boots she got from Epaulet and they seem really great for the price. I haven't tried Carmina yet myself though.

Meermin just doesn't make the cut for me as the quality control is so erratic. I've owned several pairs in the past and have sold them all except for an MTO I had made. I had a pair from the LM line, where the welt was actually exposed in the arch of one shoe.

Church's and Cheaney fall in this price range too and can also be found on sale. Most of the Grensons in this range are now their G:Two collection which is made in India and isn't the quality of C&J. If you can find G:Ones on sale they are likely a good deal.

Some other Austro-Hungarian style makers like Rozsnyai might be a great value but I don't know enough about them.

Anything else I'm missing? Sure Lobb, EG, G&G, etc are going to be better than C&J but they almost never are down to the sub-$600 range and certainly not sub-$400 like I've paid for most of my C&Js.

 

[TheSuit]

I agree that C&J have lost some appeal thanks to the price increases. I've gone over to AS Exclusive and couldn't be happier.

 

[Staffer18283]

I don't own any C&J's and don't plan on buying any at the current prices. I guess I should have explained why in my previous post to avoid getting a response like this, but here goes...

Quality of construction: I'd consider method of construction an objective measure of quality as DWFII would surely agree. C&J's are all Goodyear-welted. I can buy a handwelted pair of Enzo Bonafé or Vass shoes for cheaper than or at the same price point as any C&J Handgrade pair of shoes (full retail price example for aesthetically similar shoes: Bonafe vs. C&J).

In terms of C&J Benchgrade, Meermin's LM line of handwelted shoes are less expensive.

Solework: C&J only offers oak bark channeled soles on their Handgrade line while the soles on Benchgrade shoes are all stitched aloft (which I am not a fan of). AS Exclusive shoes all have channeled soles and they are priced competitively with C&J Benchgrade. I've actually read posts on SF saying that the soles on AS Exclusive shoes are superior to that of C&J Handgrade shoes (source so you don't have to go digging). This really shouldn't be the case when the shoes with the superior soles cost almost 40% less.

Those are really the 2 most glaring aspects of C&J shoes that prevent me from buying a pair. Of course, I am ignoring fit and comfort, which should be the priority when buying any pair of shoes, but I find it hard to believe that C&J has a last that fits me better than a last from any other comparable maker and that C&J makes a shoe on that last in a style that I find appealing at a price that I can stomach.

Anyway, just my 2 cents on the matter...

Dont disagree with any of that but several of C&J lasts strike an optimal balance between classic and contemporary. The 363 last is just perfection.

 

[PCK1]

I own 20 pairs of C&J's...along with Gaziano & Girling, Saint Crispin's, Edward Green, John Lobb, etc...and have ordered several bespoke pairs that are in construction currently...I have a lot of experience with a lot of quality shoe brands.

I think C&J are great value for their money...they are much more easily accessible than most other English brands...they offer numerous styles and options...and their construction is very good and if taken care of properly will last for decades.

Go and amortize a $700 pair of C&J shoes over a 20 year period....the price is very good!

 

[Journeyman]

...they are much more easily accessible than most other English brands...

I think that this is a key statement.

People can wax lyrical about how brands like Vass offer great value for money - and they do - but as it stands, even though a couple of places are now carrying Vass on a regular basis, Vass shoes are still not widely available and even places like No Man Walks Alone only offers a very limited range of models.

One of the advantages of C&J is that they are very widely available, both online and in bricks-and-mortar stores. You can obtain a very wide variety of models, you can try on before you buy, and (unlike other brands like Meermin, for example) they have very good quality control so you can be confident that you are getting a well-made pair of shoes.

 

[usctrojans31]



Go and amortize a $700 pair of C&J shoes over a 20 year period....the price is very good!

I was trying to convince my girlfriend to buy me a pair of English footwear and did just that. She looked at me with a perfect facial expression of, "Man you're a loser, but I still love you."

 

[PCK1]

My favorite thing about C&J is I can walk into their very nice showroom in NYC and can see all of the different models and all of their many lasts...and try them on as they usually have most of the shoes in-stock in my size...

While I love those other very high end brands that I mentioned earlier...I hate that I can never try them on...see them in person...and almost always have to MTO them and wait for like 3-12 months for them to arrive.

Also, as C&J is very prevalent all around the world and so accessible online....there are always sales popping up allowing me to scoop up the shoes at serious discounts usually in the $300-$400 range...AND THAT IS A REAL DEAL FOR THIS QUALITY

as for the comment to the girlfriend....hahaha...we've all been there at one point welcome to the club!

 

[Trompe le Monde]

I like most of the styling and the in-hand quality isn't ****.

Don't really care about other brands (or any brands) or if they cost 100 bucks more or 100 bucks less.

They're just shoes.

 

[The Shoe Snob]



they have very good quality control so you can be confident that you are getting a well-made pair of shoes.

I think that this nails it in the head IMO. Outside of strong branding power, trust is the key reason why people keep coming back and why newbies want to take a stab in the first place. If you are about to invest an amount of money that matters to you, you need to know that your purchase is going to be worth the investment.

C&J has done a good job at simply making well made shoes that can stand the test of time. They are not too fancy, nor are they too boring. They are simply a good shoe for the money and look the part. Clearly this statement makes more sense in Europe than it does in the US, as the translation does make it expensive in USD.....but either way, customers buy them because they know that they are getting a good shoe that also looks good in a classical sense

 

[Cleav]

I rest my case m'lud!

 

[Nikola]

I would not say that Crockett and Jones's shoes are classically styled. Instead, they make weirdly elongated and pointy versions of classic models.

I do find this to be the case when deciding what pair to purchase next. Their 348 last is ridiculously elongated. Even their 341 is too pointy for my taste.

What I'm fairly happy with is their 314 last for the loafer I bought, and 325 ..

After EG 202 last, everything else doesn't work for me..