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Comparing Brooks Brothers

jussumguy

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Originally Posted by TimelesStyle
I'll believe it. I always sort of assumed that so many Chinese immigrants set up laundries partly because there were fine clothing traditions in China and they had a good idea of how to care for quality garments. I could be totally making that up though.

I would, however, be willing to wager that Ascot Chang, always known for nice MTM shirts, has its roots at least partially in China (however many generations back), which could again be pure coincidence.


I never understood the assumption that "Made in China" meant inferior quality either. What's the difference if it's made in China, or made in Italy by a Chinese immigrant? I assume if they're both made for the same company, the quality controls for the final product would be the same?
 

Joenobody0

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Originally Posted by jussumguy
I never understood the assumption that "Made in China" meant inferior quality either. What's the difference if it's made in China, or made in Italy by a Chinese immigrant? I assume if they're both made for the same company, the quality controls for the final product would be the same?

I think the issue is one of unit cost. I'd be willing to be that a pair of pants produced by Martin Greenfield is more expensive than the same quality item made in China. When companies shift production and don't lower retail prices, people (correctly in my opinion) feel like they're getting less for their money.
 

jussumguy

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Originally Posted by Joenobody0
I think the issue is one of unit cost. I'd be willing to be that a pair of pants produced by Martin Greenfield is more expensive than the same quality item made in China. When companies shift production and don't lower retail prices, people (correctly in my opinion) feel like they're getting less for their money.

I don't know. It sounds like people are complaining about Made in China in regards to quality, rather than unit cost.
 

Joenobody0

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Originally Posted by jussumguy
I don't know. It sounds like people are complaining about Made in China in regards to quality, rather than unit cost.

I think some people probably are. Sometimes they're correct about lowered quality, and sometimes they are not.
 

The Thin Man

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Originally Posted by Laer Surtep
You are quite correct. Besides, you don't think the Chinese are capable of making clothes? It's not rocket science but merely sewing fabric together in a particular way. Even a lot of the clothing terms we use come from China eg shantung, chine etc
Some of the raw materials from China are the best in the world. I don't think anyone disputes that. But when companies outsource labor to China, they have put economics so far out in front of quality concerns that there is a nearly inevitable drop in quality. Note I said nearly. I will admit that there are some good "Made in China" products (e.g., some Polo Ralph Lauren products). There's no magic to any country. But it's safe to say that most "Made in USA" stuff is better than most "Made in China" stuff. Now is Crittenden better than Hardwick? Sure.
 

The Thin Man

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Originally Posted by bleachboy
I will say that when it comes to suits, there are much better routes out there in my opinion, like Samuelsohn MTM.

For whom is this a realistic choice? Samuelsohn MTM has to cost 50 percent more than on-sale Golden Fleece, and more than twice on-sale 1818.
 

TimelesStyle

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Originally Posted by The Thin Man
But it's safe to say that most "Made in USA" stuff is better than most "Made in China" stuff. Now is Crittenden better than Hardwick? Sure.

Perhaps when some degree of craftsmanship is inferred, such as with a suit. But when it comes to mechanical or electronic goods, I'll tend to give the nod to Asia-made products. I'm typing this on a Lenovo laptop right now and it's among the best I've ever used.
 

TimelesStyle

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Originally Posted by Laer Surtep
Ascot Chang is a Hong Kong shirtmaker. I've bought shirts there many years ago. His store in NY is only about 20 years old.

Never knew that. Then again, it's been a lot fewer than twenty years since I started paying attention to high quality customer shirts. I know they also have a store in Beverly Hills, but I'm assuming NY came first?
 

KObalto

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Originally Posted by RevisIsland
To clarify on some of the above posts

The only style that is always made in USA is the Madison. Also I don't believe the Milano style has been done by southwick. Fitz and regent can be either or.


I just double-checked and my Madison was made in Italy with VBC cloth. It is about 3 years old, though, and it may well be that now they are all made in the USA.
 

intent

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While I don't doubt that Hong Kong and China can produce some spectacular tailoring, I don't know if I can justify them selling Made in China goods at their top line at that price point. I always thought the largest profit margins were supposed to be from the mass consumer lines while the higher lines are supposed to be about perceived quality?
 

jussumguy

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Originally Posted by The Thin Man
Some of the raw materials from China are the best in the world. I don't think anyone disputes that.

But when companies outsource labor to China, they have put economics so far out in front of quality concerns that there is a nearly inevitable drop in quality.

Note I said nearly. I will admit that there are some good "Made in China" products (e.g., some Polo Ralph Lauren products).

There's no magic to any country. But it's safe to say that most "Made in USA" stuff is better than most "Made in China" stuff. Now is Crittenden better than Hardwick? Sure.


But say for a Polo Ralph Lauren made in China and a Polo Ralph Lauren made in Italy. Wouldn't the quality assurance folks for both have the same type of training and be using the same criteria to approve a final product for sale? That's why, cost per unit and profit made on the product aside, I would think both are pretty much the same quality-wise.
 

The Thin Man

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Originally Posted by jussumguy
But say for a Polo Ralph Lauren made in China and a Polo Ralph Lauren made in Italy. Wouldn't the quality assurance folks for both have the same type of training and be using the same criteria to approve a final product for sale? That's why, cost per unit and profit made on the product aside, I would think both are pretty much the same quality-wise.

To me the fairer comparison would be Polo made in the USA from several years ago vs. Polo made in either China or Italy today. I will stand by my statement that once a company considers moving to China, they're at a stage where company finances are so much more of a priority than quality that there's a nearly inevitable slippage in quality.

I'd also maintain that no factory in China has built the reputation of good factories in Italy. At the same time, I would admit that an equivalent product could be made in both countries.
 

nelly

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Originally Posted by TimelesStyle
I'll believe it. I always sort of assumed that so many Chinese immigrants set up laundries partly because there were fine clothing traditions in China and they had a good idea of how to care for quality garments. I could be totally making that up though.

I would, however, be willing to wager that Ascot Chang, always known for nice MTM shirts, has its roots at least partially in China (however many generations back), which could again be pure coincidence.


Your assumption is inaccurate. The reason why so many laundromats/dry cleaners are operated by Chinese immigrants is:

1) After the Gold Rush and Transcontinental Railroad construction, there was a lot of xenophobia which resulted in the Exclusion Act and the Chinese were largely restricted to labor that was undesirable such as day-laborers, house cleaners, restaurant workers and of course in laundries. It is then natural that future Chinese immigrants would come and work for Chinese businesses (many laundries) and over time open their own laundries, etc.

2) You will notice that the "undesirable" jobs noted above are often taken by society's least educated and least literate immigrant group. Today, you often find Hispanic immigrants working in laundromats that 2nd/3rd/4th generational Chinese now own. Much like Turkish immigrants taking menial jobs in Germany, this is not an issue of cultural expertise but rather urban welfare and employment.

I would also note that there were government policies in place trying to prevent the Chinese from working in the laundry business. Ironically, some policy makers are trying to enact similar restrictions on Mexican immigrants today.
 

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