Cars We Drive!

[Jmm722]

BMWs look like **** now. The regular 2-series (though the G facelift is meh), 5 series and M340 are the only cars that aren’t hideous. The 4 and 8 are awful looking and I believe the M3 is getting the buck teeth. 7 series is boring and has a stupid grill too.

 

[HRoi]

Give them time/hold their beer

 

[clee1982]

BMWs look like **** now. The regular 2-series (though the G facelift is meh), 5 series and M340 are the only cars that aren’t hideous. The 4 and 8 are awful looking and I believe the M3 is getting the buck teeth. 7 series is boring and has a stupid grill too.

I thought 8 was maybe a blend but not hateful, 7 series got presence I would say that..., same thing with X7 I suppose

 

[yorkshire pud]

BMWs look like **** now. The regular 2-series (though the G facelift is meh), 5 series and M340 are the only cars that aren’t hideous. The 4 and 8 are awful looking and I believe the M3 is getting the buck teeth. 7 series is boring and has a stupid grill too.

I think people are afraid to say it out loud, for fear of appearing "uncool"!!!

All BMWs have looked terrible since they started to hire "stylists"

There was something cool about the "Engineered" designs of the 70s and 80s

 

[clee1982]

I wouldn't go that far, I thought E60 was hideous, but looking back from now E60 stood the time pretty well (I still see E60 on the road and they don't look outdated, same thing with E90).

 

[UnFacconable]

Speaking of peak cars, my Telluride allocation was accepted by the factory and should be delivered by the end of September. I’m looking forward to hooning my one of one peak Kia for ski trips and soccer. All in all I feel really fortunate because I only had to buy 2 Kia Sportages and 1 Kia Rio in order to get the allocation I wanted [kidding here]. For real though, with all of the horror stories out there I'm feeling good about getting it on this timeline. I wasn't in a hurry and this was just about exactly when I would have wanted it to arrive.

As I mentioned previously, this will be an outdoor pet so it won't get the TLC that a lot of you guys provide to your toys. My plan is to clean it after I get it home, throw on a few layers of Optimum Gloss-Coat and then let the dirt form a protective crust over the finish. Knowing myself, it won't get washed but a few times during ski season so I think there are some benefits to getting a ceramic (or similar) coating on. It worked really well on my departed Subaru and was worth the few hours of application effort. @HRoi @otc @patrick_b - are there other products out there that I should be considering for a semi-permanent coating?

As I mentioned in the skiing thread, I signed the kids up for ski team this year so we are planning on 15+ trips to the mountains this winter. I don't think the Kia will handle the snow as well as my old car, and certainly not until I replace the stock tires with some three peak ones, but it will be more comfortable for the family so it will be a much appreciated addition to the quiver of SUVs.

 

[A Y]

All BMWs have looked terrible since they started to hire "stylists"

BMW have always used "stylists": even the vaunted 507 was styled.

The current 8 series looks fine to me, as does the F90 3-series.

 

[yorkshire pud]

BMW have always used "stylists": even the vaunted 507 was styled.

The current 8 series looks fine to me, as does the F90 3-series.

What I mean is Engineers that became "stylists" by necessity always produce a better looking car in my eyes over the marketing mens "stylists"

The reason the E30 M3 looks so "perfect" is that it was "styled" by motorsport engineers to do a particular job as a competition homologation special

Jaguar E Type is a "toned down" version of the 50s race cars

Gordon Murray hates Big Wheels for good reason "marketing nonsense"

 

[clee1982]

you mean form follow function? I mean car to a large extent have to do that in the first place, no? Also I'm not sure if it's all really form follow function, like take the older BMW they all kind have great visibility but I would imagine it's because back then big green house is in trend too, and you could make A pillar small just because well, less requirement on rollover etc.

 

[yorkshire pud]

you mean form follow function? I mean car to a large extent have to do that in the first place, no? Also I'm not sure if it's all really form follow function, like take the older BMW they all kind have great visibility but I would imagine it's because back then big green house is in trend too, and you could make A pillar small just because well, less requirement on rollover etc.

Sort of, if you look closely at an E30 M3 it resembles the base car but almost every body panel and screen angle has been tweaked for pure performance and it looks fantastic

Later M3s are far less extreme in execution (for cost reasons) and the sales figures are far higher as they are designed to sell in volume on the back of the originals racing/rallying success

Ford's Escort Cosworth is an even more extreme example (it's not really even an Escort under the skin) it's just a numbers game to make a legal rally car!!!

That's not to say humdrum bread and butter cars can't be a great design, they absolutely can, cars designed for a purpose are always better than "marketing exercises" because the design brief is clear to the engineer

The original VW Beetle is a good example of a great utilitarian design, as it completely achieved it's goals (despite the Nazi heritage)

 

[otc]

Knowing myself, it won't get washed but a few times during ski season so I think there are some benefits to getting a ceramic (or similar) coating on. It worked really well on my departed Subaru and was worth the few hours of application effort. @HRoi @otc @patrick_b - are there other products out there that I should be considering for a semi-permanent coating?

You talking DIY? Otherwise I can't imagine it is cheap to get someone to correct and coat a full size SUV in your area...and most installers won't coat without correcting the paint. And unless you're in love with the look of the telluride (not that it is ugly, just...not like it is your dream car), it seems expensive.

DIY, you can coat it as is...should still give the cleaning benefits and like 80% of the appearance benefits, but you gotta do it yourself...

 

[A Y]

The reason the E30 M3 looks so "perfect" is that it was "styled" by motorsport engineers to do a particular job as a competition homologation special

Gordon Murray hates Big Wheels for good reason "marketing nonsense"

The E30 was styled by a designer as well (who is infamous for stabbing his own son), and certainly the motorsports people had a lot of input into the M3 variant, but it was done hand-in-hand with the designer. That's really how good design ought to be done: engineering constraints will specify some things, but there are still lots of things left that are not constrained (eg. the proportions of the M3's fender flares) that have to be done well. Look at all of the ugly race cars out there compared to those which have had designers work on them along with the engineers.

Speaking of which, Peter Stevens who designed the F1, worked closely with Murray and the other engineers on the F1, and Murray believes in the importance of the designer. Stevens has also spoken a bit about how race cars should be styled.

 

[UnFacconable]

You talking DIY? Otherwise I can't imagine it is cheap to get someone to correct and coat a full size SUV in your area...and most installers won't coat without correcting the paint. And unless you're in love with the look of the telluride (not that it is ugly, just...not like it is your dream car), it seems expensive.

DIY, you can coat it as is...should still give the cleaning benefits and like 80% of the appearance benefits, but you gotta do it yourself...

Yeah, would do it myself. Probably about $1k to have someone do the paint correction and application but more importantly will involve time to make the arrangements, take it out to them, etc. unless I can find someone to come to me. Did it with a BMW I had years ago and it worked out great but the logistics were challenging (had to drop the car off about an hour from the house and pick it up 3 days later). I guess I wasn't clear, but I DIY'd my Subaru and it was just a few hours of my time with pretty good results. After 4 years the clearcoat was pretty much perfect (apart from some chips which only PPF will prevent).

Just wondering if there is a better DIY product than I used before.

 

[Jmm722]

Yeah, would do it myself. Probably about $1k to have someone do the paint correction and application but more importantly will involve time to make the arrangements, take it out to them, etc. unless I can find someone to come to me. Did it with a BMW I had years ago and it worked out great but the logistics were challenging (had to drop the car off about an hour from the house and pick it up 3 days later). I guess I wasn't clear, but I DIY'd my Subaru and it was just a few hours of my time with pretty good results. After 4 years the clearcoat was pretty much perfect (apart from some chips which only PPF will prevent).

Just wondering if there is a better DIY product than I used before.

You typically don’t need paint correction if it’s brand new. I paid $500 to get my wagon coated, but that’s because my family owns a body shop and I paid no markup. $1,000 sounds right or even low depending on the ceramic product used. There’s different quality. The best stuff is an absolute pain to apply because it cures so hard and it’s difficult to remove once it gets past a certain point during application. The non-professional stuff that consumers can buy is pretty easy to work with if you take your time, watch a couple videos and don’t get impatient.

it makes keeping the car clean so easy.

 

[yorkshire pud]

The E30 was styled by a designer as well (who is infamous for stabbing his own son), and certainly the motorsports people had a lot of input into the M3 variant, but it was done hand-in-hand with the designer. That's really how good design ought to be done: engineering constraints will specify some things, but there are still lots of things left that are not constrained (eg. the proportions of the M3's fender flares) that have to be done well. Look at all of the ugly race cars out there compared to those which have had designers work on them along with the engineers.

Speaking of which, Peter Stevens who designed the F1, worked closely with Murray and the other engineers on the F1, and Murray believes in the importance of the designer. Stevens has also spoken a bit about how race cars should be styled.

I would agree 99%, I'm not anti-style per se (being this is a forum mostly about style) What Intrigues me is how "good style" is dictated by necessity and good engineering rather than just "fashion" (This includes clothes)

I've worked in the auto industry all my working life, I love cars but they have to be more than the sum of their parts to be "cool" (for want of a better word)

There is a theory that if a race car is competitive (or is driven by somebody that has otherworldly talent) it automatically becomes beautiful by default, I fully subscribe to that ?