Breaking the rules?

[thenitwit]

I was always under the impression a sports jacket or blazer was just that and it did not have matching pants. However,I was going to get a dark navy blazer from Black Lapel and came across the picture below featuring Baron from Effortless Gent. It appears he has made use of the fact Black Lapel sell suits but the jackets can be styled as blazers, works OK on the navy blazer I think despite being smooth wool. Have looked on here a bit and seems most agree it can be smooth wool and doesn't have to feature brass buttons as the rules have changed or the tradition has been let go a bit. So, would it be acceptable to order the navy blazer and the matching pants effectively making a suit, but then break them up. I'd use the navy pants for a grey blazer and plain grey pants for the navy but, here Baron has used his jacket in a suit and also as a blazer. I'm only buying two blazers and two pairs of pants so wouldn't want to be caught out as such. That someone notices oen day the navy pants I wear match my blazer and then I look like a cheapskate or a guy who broke apart a suit. Would I be better off just ordering any other pants than the navy matching ones? As a student, having anothr outfit / a potential suit is appealing but I was going to get a suit ordered next year anyway in a more distinctive navy blue as Black Lapel's navy blue is very close to black.


It seems to be that Baron can get away with it, but I also guess he doesn't have the small wardrobe of items I am trying to build so it wouldn't stand out as much for him. As I don't needto wear 'smarter' clothes daily, I just wanted to get some to dress better when need be.


Here is the picture:


Here is the picture:

 

[CousinDonuts]

Search "blazersuit" on the forum and you'll find some discussion around this topic.

 

[Balfour]

Manton's BlazerSuit is exceptionally versatile. Non-viable with brass buttons - use brown horn.

Don't wear navy trousers with a grey jacket. Smooth worsted wool can just about work as a navy blazer (although there are better options, e.g. hopsack, fresco, heavy twill to replicate a serge). But a grey odd jacket should be non-worsted - textured, ideally with variegation.

Also search for Vox's Swiss Army Suit thread (navy fresco suit with swappable buttons, allowing for the jacket to be used as a blazer with brass buttons). But you'd be in bespoke territory there.

 

[thenitwit]

Manton's BlazerSuit is exceptionally versatile. Non-viable with brass buttons - use brown horn.

Don't wear navy trousers with a grey jacket. Smooth worsted wool can just about work as a navy blazer (although there are better options, e.g. hopsack, fresco, heavy twill to replicate a serge). But a grey odd jacket should be non-worsted - textured, ideally with variegation.

Also search for Vox's Swiss Army Suit thread (navy fresco suit with swappable buttons, allowing for the jacket to be used as a blazer with brass buttons). But you'd be in bespoke territory there.

Thanks for the response + tips.



I presume these are all acceptable as blazers + could be worn with grey wool odd trousers?

http://www.blacklapel.com/blazers/spanish-blue-herringbone-blazer.html

http://www.blacklapel.com/blazers/solid-royal-blue-blazer.html

http://www.blacklapel.com/blazers/solid-charcoal-blue-blazer.html

The Spanish one is a Herringbone finish.

 

[Balfour]

Thanks for the response + tips.



I presume these are all acceptable as blazers + could be worn with grey wool odd trousers?

http://www.blacklapel.com/blazers/spanish-blue-herringbone-blazer.html

http://www.blacklapel.com/blazers/solid-royal-blue-blazer.html

http://www.blacklapel.com/blazers/solid-charcoal-blue-blazer.html

The Spanish one is a Herringbone finish.

It depends what you mean by "blazer".

These are all too fashion forward for my tastes. To say I don't like any of them is to be mild, but that's only my opinion.

The 'charcoal blue' and spanish blue colours are certainly not classical blazer colours - think navy and midnight. (If you want something lighter, fresco 0520 makes nice non-traditional summer blazer.)

Also, cannot stand ticket pockets (generally, but especially on a blazer) and slanted pockets. For a casual look, patch pockets work much better (although I am not personally fond of them). All these seem too short as well, in line with the modern Thom Brown shrunken suit trend (which is deplorable). Buttoning point much too high, worn with 'on the hips' trousers.

You may of course want something more fashion forward. I write from a very conservative perspective. But even then I think there are better options for something contemporary and stylish. See e.g. pocketsquareguy's ten essentials: http://www.styleforum.net/t/278789/what-are-your-10-menswear-essentials/0_50

 

[thenitwit]

It depends what you mean by "blazer".

These are all too fashion forward for my tastes. To say I don't like any of them is to be mild, but that's only my opinion.

The 'charcoal blue' and spanish blue colours are certainly not classical blazer colours - think navy and midnight. (If you want something lighter, fresco 0520 makes nice non-traditional summer blazer.)

Also, cannot stand ticket pockets (generally, but especially on a blazer) and slanted pockets. For a casual look, patch pockets work much better (although I am not personally fond of them). All these seem too short as well, in line with the modern Thom Brown shrunken suit trend (which is deplorable). Buttoning point much too high, worn with 'on the hips' trousers.

You may of course want something more fashion forward. I write from a very conservative perspective. But even then I think there are better options for something contemporary and stylish. See e.g. pocketsquareguy's ten essentials: http://www.styleforum.net/t/278789/what-are-your-10-menswear-essentials/0_50

I understand. I mean a navy odd jacket, I suppose. A blazer is the traditional navy orientated one with brass buttons, right?
I'm trying to find a blazer I can wear with jeans and chinos and dress shirts to smarten up a bit as I currently have not got one, or any that fit well so it will be my first purchase as I later purchase another jacket, then a few pairs of odd trousers then shirts that take cufflinks when I purchase my first suit (which is not necessary yet as I am young and a student).

What do you think of this? I am finding it impossible to find a decent navy blazer for £300 in the UK that will fit well and includes alterations for the price so I have decided to try online MTM. As it is not *needed*, I do have some patience and if I can get a good fit, it may be rewarding till I climb up the ladder later in life.

This is described as royal blue but is closer to navy , I have the swatch. Their navy is midnight blue and looks black. Being young. I don't want someone to think I've just work a suit jacket because I am a fool.

Would you classify this as fashion forward? Or is it a mix? I don't want something too fashion forward as in all honesty, my style is still developing and fashion forward = waste of money, bin in a year when you realise it's a horrible item.


http://www.blacklapel.com/blazers/solid-royal-blue-blazer.html

 

[Balfour]

I understand. I mean a navy odd jacket, I suppose. A blazer is the traditional navy orientated one with brass buttons, right?

In the strictest use of the term, but Manton's BlazerSuit is still classical and tasteful (if not strictly a blazer because it has does not have brass buttons). Fresco, or hopsack or worsted flannel give plenty of surface interest and avoid the 'wearing a suit jacket problem'. See the other features as well (patch pockets, swelled edges, brown horn buttons).

What do you think of this? I am finding it impossible to find a decent navy blazer for £300 in the UK that will fit well and includes alterations for the price so I have decided to try online MTM. As it is not *needed*, I do have some patience and if I can get a good fit, it may be rewarding till I climb up the ladder later in life.

This is described as royal blue but is closer to navy , I have the swatch. Their navy is midnight blue and looks black. Being young. I don't want someone to think I've just work a suit jacket because I am a fool.

TBH, I would avoid online made to measure like the plague. The forum is littered with complete traffic accidents. And I really dislike the block pattern that the firm you are linking uses (made to measure involves taking measurements and then adjusting the block to accommodate this; it has mixed results when a trained tailor takes the measurements; online usually involves the customer taking his own measurements, which produces the traffic accidents).

Seriously, for £80 more I would go to the Cad and the Dandy - they can make you a machine made odd jacket at that price in a decent honest blazer cloth (e.g. a Dugdale). Will not have the bells and whistles of bespoke, but will give you something much more classical than the examples you are linking, a reasonable choice of fabrics and the opportunity to be measured by a professional (ask for John deBoise if you can).

(I'm suggesting C&tD in another thread, but have no association with them. For beater bespoke, having got my pattern dialled in I actually prefer another value tailor.)

Another example would be Ede and Ravenscroft - either OTR or MTM.

Roderick Charles do some okay OTR blazers at a cheap rate. Oliver Brown may also be worth a try.

Basically - many better options.

Would you classify this as fashion forward? Or is it a mix? I don't want something too fashion forward as in all honesty, my style is still developing and fashion forward = waste of money, bin in a year when you realise it's a horrible item.

QFT.

 

[thenitwit]

In the strictest use of the term, but Manton's BlazerSuit is still classical and tasteful (if not strictly a blazer because it has does not have brass buttons). Fresco, or hopsack or worsted flannel give plenty of surface interest and avoid the 'wearing a suit jacket problem'. See the other features as well (patch pockets, swelled edges, brown horn buttons).

TBH, I would avoid online made to measure like the plague. The forum is littered with complete traffic accidents. And I really dislike the block pattern that the firm you are linking uses (made to measure involves taking measurements and then adjusting the block to accommodate this; it has mixed results when a trained tailor takes the measurements; online usually involves the customer taking his own measurements, which produces the traffic accidents).

Seriously, for £80 more I would go to the Cad and the Dandy - they can make you a machine made odd jacket at that price in a decent honest blazer cloth (e.g. a Dugdale). Will not have the bells and whistles of bespoke, but will give you something much more classical than the examples you are linking, a reasonable choice of fabrics and the opportunity to be measured by a professional (ask for John deBoise if you can).

(I'm suggesting C&tD in another thread, but have no association with them. For beater bespoke, having got my pattern dialled in I actually prefer another value tailor.)

Another example would be Ede and Ravenscroft - either OTR or MTM.

Roderick Charles do some okay OTR blazers at a cheap rate. Oliver Brown may also be worth a try.

Basically - many better options.

I have checked out Cad and the Dandy but have heard terrible things about them, on here and over the internet in general but this may not be the case now.

I may pop into Charles Trywitt and see how their stuff fits but their shirts swamp me.

I will look at the others. I had considered C+TD in my original search but reviews put me off. Are they good?

 

[Balfour]

I have checked out Cad and the Dandy but have heard terrible things about them, on here and over the internet in general but this may not be the case now.

I may pop into Charles Trywitt and see how their stuff fits but their shirts swamp me.

I will look at the others. I had considered C+TD in my original search but reviews put me off. Are they good?

They were for me. But I knew precisely what I was looking for and used their full bespoke option. I also have some experience with this, with traditional Savile Row under my belt. I wanted to find a good value tailor and tried a few. C&tD were good, but I use someone else now (their taste is closer to mine and they have a sensible pricing structure on cloth - C&tD mark up considerably some cloths).

John deBoise (their cutter) is a Savile Row trained proper tailor. You will not be getting bespoke at £380, but with him taking your measurements, you will be infinitely better served than by online MTM to be sure.

 

[Geezer]

All those are too "fashion forward" for me, but I am not you.


As Balfour has said, plain blue suit jackets can work well with different trousers (even jeans) as odd jackets. For some reason, grey ones can't.

The proper, traditional, navy with metal buttons blazer was once a staple but has ended up as too casual in a suit environment, but too simultaneously too formal, in a casual one.


This thread may help:

http://www.styleforum.net/t/228759/rant-meaning-of-the-word-blazer/0_100

 

[Balfour]

All those are too "fashion forward" for me, but I am not you.


As Balfour has said, plain blue suit jackets can work well with different trousers (even jeans) as odd jackets. For some reason, grey ones can't.

The proper, traditional, navy with metal buttons blazer was once a staple but has ended up as too casual in a suit environment, but too simultaneously too formal, in a casual one.


This thread may help:

http://www.styleforum.net/t/228759/rant-meaning-of-the-word-blazer/0_100

Good to see you posting again!

I like my blazers, but I have been won over by the heretical BlazerSuit with its brown horn buttons. Would never of course wear as conservative business dress in the UK.

 

[Geezer]



Good to see you posting again!

I like my blazers, but I have been won over by the heretical BlazerSuit with its brown horn buttons.  Would never of course wear as conservative business dress in the UK.

Thanks! It's good to be back.

I'm continually struck by the fact that the only real blazer I own was made 25 years ago (bespoke DB 2 show 4, but I am 6'2" so can just carry it off) and I have never felt a strong need to replace it, despite - or because of - acquiring many "blazerish" odd jackets since.

 

[Balfour]

Thanks! It's good to be back.

I'm continually struck by the fact that the only real blazer I own was made 25 years ago (bespoke DB 2 show 4, but I am 6'2" so can just carry it off) and I have never felt a strong need to replace it, despite - or because of - acquiring many "blazerish" odd jackets since.

At 5'9", I don't do DB - my wardrobe is similar in style if not quality to the Duke of Edinburgh (all single breasted 2B, although only jetted pockets with City suits).

What do you like by way of blazer-ish odd jackets?

 

[thenitwit]

Good to see you posting again!

I like my blazers, but I have been won over by the heretical BlazerSuit with its brown horn buttons. Would never of course wear as conservative business dress in the UK.

My budget at the moment is a stretched £300. I may just leave the blazer till next year but was hoping to have one for when I start university. I know it's rare to get a decent garment made for £30 without outsourcing. I also don't want to have to explicitly tell a tailor, hey, can you only show me the cheapest cloths, lol.

It just seems that by the time I've bought a reasonably OK OTR and had waist supression, the sleeves shortened that it's slim of £300 and just makes me think it wasn't worth it.

Do you perhaps know of a RTW of a good quality that offers alterations on their garments? I know Slaters do but their stuff is junk, needless to say. Do Roderick Charles do MTM? Are their sales genuine, or like Charles Trywitt all year round? They have a blazer on sale and I am unsure if it's a real mark down or the same as many seem to do on Jeremy Street where the non sale price is inflated.

Have you hard of these people?

http://www.mastertailoruk.com

 

[Balfour]

My budget at the moment is a stretched £300. I may just leave the blazer till next year but was hoping to have one for when I start university. I know it's rare to get a decent garment made for £30 without outsourcing. I also don't want to have to explicitly tell a tailor, hey, can you only show me the cheapest cloths, lol.

It just seems that by the time I've bought a reasonably OK OTR and had waist supression, the sleeves shortened that it's slim of £300 and just makes me think it wasn't worth it.

Do you perhaps know of a RTW of a good quality that offers alterations on their garments? I know Slaters do but their stuff is junk, needless to say. Do Roderick Charles do MTM? Are their sales genuine, or like Charles Trywitt all year round? They have a blazer on sale and I am unsure if it's a real mark down or the same as many seem to do on Jeremy Street where the non sale price is inflated.

Have you hard of these people?

http://www.mastertailoruk.com

I really would suggest you dig out the extra £80.

A decent blazer in a solid wool 13 ounce can take a beating and last a lifetime. I have one going strong that was worn heavily for ten years and infrequently for another ten. Still there. If you can find the funds and invest in a hardy Huddersfield cloth, this really will pay dividends over time.

Alternatively try E&R OTR in the sales. They produce a good, traditional, hardy product (although have lilted a little towards fashion recently if the website is anything to go by).

And Oliver Brown is well worth a look - what Hackett used to be (niche little shop off Sloane Square, run by great people and with decent quality reasonably priced OTR together with MTM). I don't like their block because of the slanting pockets, but much better than the firm you linked. You could have the buttons on this swapped over to brown horn by any competent tailor (& they may well do this in-house):http://www.oliverbrown.org.uk/gentlemen/shop-by-product/jackets/single-breasted-navy-blazer.html