Bondwelting - how does it differ from Goodyear welt

[sunman42000]

Hoping someone here can describe what bondwelting is and how it differs from a goodyear welt.

 

[AnGeLiCbOrIs]

I think that 'bondwelt' is a fancy way of saying cemented.

 

[bengal-stripe]

You might mean a "˜bonwelt', which is a glued-in strip (leather, leatherboard or even plastic),
which gives the look of a welted construction, but is simply decorative.

http://www.barbourcorp.com/pdf/welting_catalog.pdf

 

[Schweino]

I wondered what kind of construction this shoe has:

According to the seller on Ebay they are goodyear welted, but I don't see a welt on the top side on the shoe. The welt on the sole seems a little to far off to the sides for the shoe to be a Blake welt and the seller told me that there wasn't any stitching to be seen on the inside of the shoe (although that could have been covered by an insole). Could this be a Bonwelt? If so, then the stitching on the soles are fake but I wouldn't know why a shoemaker would go through the trouble of doing that.

 

[Wrigglez]

my mum has apair of baxter boots (lower grade non whole cuts) that have a welt, but there in no stitching between the welt and the outer sole, the outer sole is glued to the welt. it was re glued a while ago because it failed (the toe part of the outer sole detached from the welt)
i assume this is what is ment by bondwelt

 

[Wrigglez]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

You might mean a "˜bonwelt', which is a glued-in strip (leather, leatherboard or even plastic),
which gives the look of a welted construction, but is simply decorative.

http://www.barbourcorp.com/pdf/welting_catalog.pdf

haha that is rather disturbing,

 

[StopPolloition]

It looks like Goodyear welt to me.

 

[Schweino]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

You might mean a "˜bonwelt', which is a glued-in strip (leather, leatherboard or even plastic),
which gives the look of a welted construction, but is simply decorative.

http://www.barbourcorp.com/pdf/welting_catalog.pdf

Originally Posted by StopPolloition

It looks like Goodyear welt to me.

But where do you see the top-side stitches then?

 

[DWFII]

Originally Posted by Schweino

But where do you see the top-side stitches then?
Sometimes a vertical channelwill be cut in the welt and stitches dropped into the channel as it is being sewn. For all intents and purposes, the stitching is invisible. However, this technique also weakens the welt so significantly that, within a very short time after it was introduced (many years ago), it was held in very low esteem...by shoemakers, at least. BTW, I do see a welt there. It could be a "Bonwelt" (or "rand welt" as I was taught)...although I do not think so...but it is definitely there. Also FWIW the cemented welt technique is called "Silhouwelt." I think it is more appropriate for womens work (if at all) but I have run across makers (some of whom were, shall we say, a bit "rough and ready") who feel that modern cements are strong enough to hold the shoe together without stitching. Even boots intended as daily wear for men.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by Schweino

But where do you see the top-side stitches then?

There are two ways of producing welted shoes without visible stitching on top of the welt:

In factory-made shoes there is a method, where a **** is cut from above and the stitches sink into the welt, so they can hardly be seen. Judging by the picture, that was done with the Grenson shoe featured. That method is also used by C&J in virtually all their leather-soled shoes (but not with stitched rubber soles like Dainite or Commando).

In bespoke, hand sewn shoes there is the technique of a channelled welt, which is the same principle as the channelled sole. A cut is placed sideways, creating a flap which can be folded up, then the stitches are placed and the flap is folded back again, hiding the stitches. Then you decorate the top of the welt with a fudge wheel (or a stitch marker). That decoration is totally independent of the stitches. The welt might look incredibly neat, but the actual stitching could be rather course. I remember the shoemaker Bill Bird posting somewhere, he had come across a pair of Tuczek shoes (from the "˜golden Age' of bespoke shoe shoemaking). But not everything was as it looked: the channelled welt was wheeled to 16 stitches per inch, but the actual stitching underneath was only something like 6 per inch.

Just look in the welt catalogue: as many people consider the visible stitching a sign of proper construction, a number of the bonwelts come with stitching already in place. But those stitches are purely decoration and add nothing to the construction.

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

Originally Posted by Schweino

I wondered what kind of construction this shoe has.

I think they are Goodyear welted, but regardless of the type of construction they look like corrected grain and are from one of Grensons lower lines (Footmaster I think) so should be avoided.

 

[Schweino]

Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum

I think they are Goodyear welted, but regardless of the type of construction they look like corrected grain and are from one of Grensons lower lines (Footmaster I think) so should be avoided.
Even worse: They are from the Feathermaster range. Haven't bought them (I never buy shoes where the internal lining is not leather), was just wondering about the welting technique since I had a hard time believing it's a Goodyear welt. According to the posts above it could be Goodyear, but then a welt-hiding technique had to be used. Somehow I don't think Grenson would do that in their Feathermaster range since it's the cheapest range of they entire collection. Or would this technique be cheaper to produce than regular Goodyear welting?

 

[amatuer buyer]

Looking for a good every day loafer. Have significantly more expensive shoes ie perl & co and Allen Edmonds. However ran across this advert for J&M and was wondering about the quality and how long it will last any advice would be appreciated.

http://www.shoebuy.com/johnston-mur...?cm_mmc=ca_sb_tellapart-_-none-_-none-_-none#

claims a bond welt construction.

Thanks in advance