Authenticity

['patanoster]

Here it is. If you carefully wade past the pointless arguments it's a pretty interesting topic.

An apt summary of the forum as a whole, based on my (admittedly short) experience.

 

[cb200]

I have to applaud some here for being able to bring in other topics and discussions with such aplomb in order to bolster for what, in the end, is nothing more than opinion. Somehow, though, when ones opinions are backed up with pseudo scientific / academic writing it takes on the veneer of fact.

I’m curious about something; how many people who seem to be falling all over themselves worrying about what to call a group of people or whether one should wear jewelry styled in a certain motif have actually met people from these groups. Not just met, but lived amongst them, eaten with them and cared for them?

I'm curious to the nature of that question. Why do you ask?

 

[pasadena man]

I have to applaud some here for being able to bring in other topics and discussions with such aplomb in order to bolster for what, in the end, is nothing more than opinion. Somehow, though, when ones opinions are backed up with pseudo scientific / academic writing it takes on the veneer of fact.

I’m curious about something; how many people who seem to be falling all over themselves worrying about what to call a group of people or whether one should wear jewelry styled in a certain motif have actually met people from these groups. Not just met, but lived amongst them, eaten with them and cared for them?

There is official precedent. Imperial China had an actual Bureau for the Rectification of Names to deal with these issues in an efficient and comprehensive fashion.

 

[Bronze Age Sartorial]

From its beginning, Ivy style has been shaped by Jewish clothiers. J. Press and Chipp were both founded by Jewish families. For a time, Brooks Brothers was owned by a Jewish-owned parent company, Garfinckles. This was the same period when John C Woods ran the label (Woods is widely considered to be one of the last "greats" in the company's history). At the turn of the 20th century, about 90% of NYC's garment district industry was owned by newly arrived German Jews, and a Jewish presence still remains big in the American garment trade because of this history.

Interesting, appreciate the detailed reply ??

 

[efta]

I have to applaud some here for being able to bring in other topics and discussions with such aplomb in order to bolster for what, in the end, is nothing more than opinion. Somehow, though, when ones opinions are backed up with pseudo scientific / academic writing it takes on the veneer of fact.

I’m curious about something; how many people who seem to be falling all over themselves worrying about what to call a group of people or whether one should wear jewelry styled in a certain motif have actually met people from these groups. Not just met, but lived amongst them, eaten with them and cared for them?

Why would that ever matter or even be desirable? I've worn a baseball cap, yet I've neither been to brooklyn nor have I eaten/cared for a brooklynite. Does that mean I'm a poser? The whole discussion is just reeking of insecurity.

 

[vdubiv]

what does wearing a

Why would that ever matter or even be desirable? I've worn a baseball cap, yet I've neither been to brooklyn nor have I eaten/cared for a brooklynite. Does that mean I'm a poser? The whole discussion is just reeking of insecurity.

what does wearing a baseball cap have to do with Brooklyn?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I'm curious to the nature of that question. Why do you ask?

because there are people falling all over themselves wondering about the propriety of it. I wonder if it’s a form of self absolution? “These people are unfortunate, poor and disenfranchised. I’ll do my part and make noise about what they should be called and I’ll be doing my part to help them.” For people like me who spent a lot of time with them, I’ll tell you. They’re not that worried about it and for poorer tribes, like I worked with, their concerns were more existential.

Opinion: Dear white people, stop telling Native Americans like me whether we're offended by the Washington Redskins

My tribe doesn’t identify as 'redskins' – this is a derogatory term coined by colonialists often historically used interchangeably with 'savages'

www.independent.co.uk

Washington Post Poll Finds Redskins Name Doesn't Offend 9 in 10 Native Americans

Results of a Washington Post poll released Thursday showed 90 percent of Native Americans asked weren't bothered by the Washington Redskins ' team nickname ...

bleacherreport.com

I normally don’t like citing others in order to back what I observe but there are those here who are more comfortable expressing an opinion once they find the data to support their position.

 

[dieworkwear]

For people like me who spent a lot of time with them, I’ll tell you. They’re not that worried about it and for poorer tribes, like I worked with, they’re concerns were more existential.

How did you come to this conclusion? While working them, did you ask "do you mind if I call you redskin?"

 

[radicaldog]

I have to applaud some here for being able to bring in other topics and discussions with such aplomb in order to bolster for what, in the end, is nothing more than opinion. Somehow, though, when ones opinions are backed up with pseudo scientific / academic writing it takes on the veneer of fact.

Because as we all know, all opinions are equally plausible and well-supported.

 

[dieworkwear]

what does wearing a

what does wearing a baseball cap have to do with Brooklyn?

The progenitor of the modern baseball cap was worn by members of the Brooklyn Excelsior team. Before that, men wore things like straw boaters on the field.

But I don't think Phileas Fogg's comment had anything to do with authenticity. As I suspected, I think he was more commenting on how he feels people are virtue signaling or whatever. I think it's possible that the majority of native people are not concerned with the word Indian (I have no idea, as I have not conducted a poll). But I've met enough native people who consider the term a slur, and I'm happy to use another term. The term Indian seems like a misnomer anyway.

 

[Andy57]

At the Bear Inn in Oxford they have acres of cut-off ties with the relevant information. Styfo dudes need to consult it as a reference library before they even think of setting foot in the Bodleian.

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Are these ties that have been removed from people who wore them inauthentically? I've never had occasion to visit Oxford nor set foot in the Bodleian, but should I, in the future, I believe I'll wear a grenadine solid tie.

 

[dieworkwear]

Are these ties that have been removed from people who wore them inauthentically? I've never had occasion to visit Oxford nor set foot in the Bodleian, but should I, in the future, I believe I'll wear a grenadine solid tie.

You should wear your London Lounge club tie, and then log into your account when questioned.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

The progenitor of the modern baseball cap was worn by members of the Brooklyn Excelsior team. Before that, men wore things like straw boaters on the field.

But I don't think Phileas Fogg's comment had anything to do with authenticity. As I suspected, I think he was more commenting on how he feels people are virtue signaling or whatever. I think it's possible that the majority of native people are not concerned with the word Indian (I have no idea, as I have not conducted a poll). But I've met enough native people who consider the term a slur, and I'm happy to use another term. The term Indian seems like a misnomer anyway.

As am I. I agree; I would never gratuitously use a term that would be offensive to someone, even if others in that same class don’t object to it.

The point I was making is that often times we focus on esoteric and marginal concerns, perhaps out of our own bourgeois vanity or perhaps because we simply don’t know, and gloss over the real problems concerning these communities and groups.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

How did you come to this conclusion? While working them, did you ask "do you mind if I call you redskin?"

when you’re around people long enough you get to know their concerns, problems, fears and anxieties. Poverty, education, drugs and alcohol related issues were first and foremost. Did I ask them? Of course not.

 

[dieworkwear]

As am I. I agree; I would never gratuitously use a term that would be offensive to someone, even if others in that same class don’t object to it.

The point I was making is that often times we focus on esoteric and marginal concerns, perhaps out of our own bourgeois vanity or perhaps because we simply don’t know, and gloss over the real problems concerning these communities and groups.

I think this question arose when a native person on this board asked someone else to not use the term Indian. You then included a link about the Washington Redskins and mentioned your experience with native people to seemingly correct a native person on this board, which ... seems weird?

People can walk and chew gum at the same time; you can care about both issues. It's possible that some people are concerned with just semiotics and not material matters, but since this specific discussion isn't about material issues, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.