Crockett & Jones MTO Central

Omert4 · Apr 28, 2014

aldenfan said:
Yeah, but Allen Edmonds won't be able to get ahold of any whiskey cordovan :-\.

If I was the CEO of Allen Edmonds, I'd really work on the boot offerings and I'd invest heavily in figuring out how to grow calf leather and shell cordovan in a science lab so that way there'd be no shortage of great calf or cordovan. It wouldn't be prone to scarring, stretch marks, etc. But all of these shoe companies are so old school and so stuck in doing things how they've been doing things since the time of Jesus.

aldenfan · Apr 28, 2014

Omert4 said:
If I was the CEO of Allen Edmonds, I'd really work on the boot offerings and I'd invest heavily in figuring out how to grow calf leather and shell cordovan in a science lab so that way there'd be no shortage of great calf or cordovan. It wouldn't be prone to scarring, stretch marks, etc. But all of these shoe companies are so old school and so stuck in doing things how they've been doing things since the time of Jesus.

You'd have a heck of a demand for your product. Just imagine all the ravello, whiskey, and cigar shoes. Allen Edmonds definitely is weaker on their boot line up. Their Dalton is okay, but isn't close to as fashionable as Alden and C&J offerings.

mdubs · Apr 28, 2014

aldenfan said:
You'd have a heck of a demand for your product. Just imagine all the ravello, whiskey, and cigar shoes. Allen Edmonds definitely is weaker on their boot line up. Their Dalton is okay, but isn't close to as fashionable as Alden and C&J offerings.

Yeah, I don't know why AE isn't very into boots. They are from a cold region! But their current boot lineup is pretty anemic. They had some good designs with the Eagle Country, had they used the right materials, and then it is easy enough to start variants from that.

But they do not have a shoe that even compares to the Harlech at this point in time. Not to mention they do not carry the right shades of Shell anymore.

-Mike

wklq76a · Apr 28, 2014

Omert4 said:
If I was the CEO of Allen Edmonds, I'd really work on the boot offerings and I'd invest heavily in figuring out how to grow calf leather and shell cordovan in a science lab so that way there'd be no shortage of great calf or cordovan. It wouldn't be prone to scarring, stretch marks, etc. But all of these shoe companies are so old school and so stuck in doing things how they've been doing things since the time of Jesus.

Not sure how serious you were about this idea, but growing leather in a lab is something that would take decades and hundreds of millions of dollars of R&D to make happen (and even then, satisfactory results are far from guaranteed). It's an endeavor unlikely to be undertaken by a shoe company.

I totally agree that AE could improve their boot selection, though.

aldenfan · Apr 28, 2014

wklq76a said:
Not sure how serious you were about this idea, but growing leather in a lab is something that would take decades and hundreds of millions of dollars of R&D to make happen (and even then, satisfactory results are far from guaranteed). It's an endeavor unlikely to be undertaken by a shoe company.

I totally agree that AE could improve their boot selection, though.

What about horse cloning? http://www.viagen.com/benefits/equine.php

tifosi · Apr 28, 2014

aldenfan said:
What about horse cloning? http://www.viagen.com/benefits/equine.php

Maybe they have something similar for Zugglets....

wklq76a · Apr 28, 2014

My understanding was that Omert4 was proposing that scientists grow the shell cordovan (just the leather) by itself in a lab, bypassing the need to raise a horse at all. Cloning a horse altogether is a technology much closer to being routine, but it doesn't solve the main issues - that it takes a long time and a significant amount of money to generate harvestable shell.

tifosi · Apr 28, 2014

wklq76a said:
My understanding was that Omert4 was proposing that scientists grow the shell cordovan (just the leather) by itself in a lab, bypassing the need to raise a horse at all. Cloning a horse altogether is a technology much closer to being routine, but it doesn't solve the main issues - that it takes a long time and a significant amount of money to generate harvestable shell.

What are the chances, you think, someone will try to produce fake shell cordovan at some point? Ya know...like pleather? Hmmm

wklq76a · Apr 28, 2014

I am officially out of my element now, but I suspect that the size of the shell cordovan market would have to approach the cowhide market before someone decides that it's a worthwhile venture to develop a "fake" version.

Omert4 · Apr 28, 2014

wklq76a said:
My understanding was that Omert4 was proposing that scientists grow the shell cordovan (just the leather) by itself in a lab, bypassing the need to raise a horse at all. Cloning a horse altogether is a technology much closer to being routine, but it doesn't solve the main issues - that it takes a long time and a significant amount of money to generate harvestable shell.

Yes, that was what I was proposing. I wouldn't propose cloning horses and killing them just for their leather. That doesn't sit right with me.

Yeah, there is no way AE could fund such a project on their own. They don't have the money for that and it wouldn't make much financial sense for them to do that even if they could. There are others working on such technologies. There has already been lab-grown meat. I'm not a scientist at all. But I figure maybe one of the shoe companies could work with companies researching in this field. It's certainly very much worth at least entertaining, IMO. It would be great if it all worked out--a huge supply of the finest quality calf and cordovan.

aldenfan · Apr 28, 2014

wklq76a said:
My understanding was that Omert4 was proposing that scientists grow the shell cordovan (just the leather) by itself in a lab, bypassing the need to raise a horse at all. Cloning a horse altogether is a technology much closer to being routine, but it doesn't solve the main issues - that it takes a long time and a significant amount of money to generate harvestable shell.

Makes sense. They can grow other human organs and stuff now, why not shell cordovan?

Is the quality of shell cordovan based on the genetics of the horse? Or do flaws come from the horse getting scars/bites/stretching/whatever during its life?

aldenfan · Apr 28, 2014

Omert4 said:
Yes, that was what I was proposing. I wouldn't propose cloning horses and killing them just for their leather. That doesn't sit right with me.

Yeah, there is no way AE could fund such a project on their own. They don't have the money for that and it wouldn't make much financial sense for them to do that even if they could. There are others working on such technologies. There has already been lab-grown meat. I'm not a scientist at all. But I figure maybe one of the shoe companies could work with companies researching in this field. It's certainly very much worth at least entertaining, IMO. It would be great if it all worked out--a huge supply of the finest quality calf and cordovan.

I believe most cordovan in the market right now comes from killing horses for consumption and then the shells are saved. If you were to clone horses I don't see how it would be different if they are also killed for consumption and their shells as well. Or is it that you don't think people would eat cloned horse meat and thus it would go to waste as a food source?

Omert4 · Apr 28, 2014

aldenfan said:
I believe most cordovan in the market right now comes from killing horses for consumption and then the shells are saved. If you were to clone horses I don't see how it would be different if they are also killed for consumption and their shells as well. Or is it that you don't think people would eat cloned horse meat and thus it would go to waste as a food source?

Why clone a horse and kill it when it's possible to figure out how to just grow the shells? The latter seems much more humane.

tifosi · Apr 28, 2014

aldenfan said:
I believe most cordovan in the market right now comes from killing horses for consumption and then the shells are saved. If you were to clone horses I don't see how it would be different if they are also killed for consumption and their shells as well. Or is it that you don't think people would eat cloned horse meat and thus it would go to waste as a food source?

It was my understanding that horses aren't bred for consumption, though. Unlike cows. I could be wrong.

wklq76a · Apr 28, 2014

aldenfan said:
Makes sense. They can grow other human organs and stuff now, why not shell cordovan?

Is the quality of shell cordovan based on the genetics of the horse? Or do flaws come from the horse getting scars/bites/stretching/whatever during its life?

There's nothing scientifically that precludes it from happening. But many, many more people are interested in growing human organs to save people's lives, than in growing horse ass for a bizarre sect of footwear enthusiasts.

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