What is your favorite hand gun?

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by hopkins_student

I just read through this thread for the first time and I only made it about 2/3 of the way through, but it's sort of disturbing. This thread reads like something Cho Seung-Hui might have started to figure out which guns would be most effective at killings lots of people. Does anybody else get that feeling?

Unfortunately... there are those types out there. But I sort of doubt anything said so far would be much use to someone wanting to go on a homicidal rampage. The guns recommended for that are much different. Plus, there are a multiverse of sites out there with more gung-ho kill'em all info available. This is actually incredibly tame in comparison with a lot of stuff, and I think that there's a lot of positive, useful information in here. Some misguided (IMO) advice as well, but again, in comparison to "gun" message boards, we haven't even hit critical mass as far as idiocy is concerned yet. I made my belt fed minigun recommendation in jest. Some people out there might seriously have mentioned something capable of high capacity, full-auto fire as a valid home defense gun. Which blows my mind.

 

[hopkins_student]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

Unfortunately... there are those types out there. But I sort of doubt anything said so far would be much use to someone wanting to go on a homicidal rampage. The guns recommended for that are much different. Plus, there are a multiverse of sites out there with more gung-ho kill'em all info available. This is actually incredibly tame in comparison with a lot of stuff, and I think that there's a lot of positive, useful information in here. Some misguided (IMO) advice as well, but again, in comparison to "gun" message boards, we haven't even hit critical mass as far as idiocy is concerned yet. I made my belt fed minigun recommendation in jest. Some people out there might seriously have mentioned something capable of high capacity, full-auto fire as a valid home defense gun. Which blows my mind.
I agree that there are easily accessible resources with much more information, but this thread is still kind of scary.

 

[FLMountainMan]

Originally Posted by hopkins_student

I just read through this thread for the first time and I only made it about 2/3 of the way through, but it's sort of disturbing. This thread reads like something Cho Seung-Hui might have started to figure out which guns would be most effective at killings lots of people. Does anybody else get that feeling?

Not really. Guns are designed to kill, that is their purpose. A discussion of one's favorite handgun naturally will revolve around this subject.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by hopkins_student

I agree that there are easily accessible resources with much more information, but this thread is still kind of scary.
The thing that really frightens me is the general acceptance of the fact that people can recommend owning a firearm that they would shoot to defend their life with, that you "don't have to practice much with" or that people unfamiliar with guns find easier to use. Which basically goes against everything I believe as far as responsible gun ownership is concerned.

 

[LabelKing]

I have noticed that historically, the Germans were unusually fond of carrying small handguns.

 

[Huntsman]

Including the smallest automatic, the 2.7mm Kolibri. I have a specimen cartridge, it is approximately the size of a grain of rice on steroids. It has a Wiki page...awesome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.7_mm_Kolibri

 

[LSeca]

Originally Posted by Arethusa

LSeca: as far as using birdshot for your first round, while I appreciate valuing stopping over killing, probably worth reading this.


Yes, you will find a lot of info on firearms and ammunition when you search the internet. There is too much condradictory info out there and it is difficult to tell what is bs and what is not. This link looks like a good bit of info on shot penetration and difficult to dispute for anyone. However, I think we really got into the bird shot and 00 buck stuff too much in the thread, taking away from other important reasons the shotgun is my choice for home defense. I am not going to go into them here anymore, as this thread is a dissaster like a lot of other internet discussions. There are jsut too many stubborn individuals out there that think they have to argue and/or prove something. Some of them can not even legally own a firearm but they will write paragraph after paragraph about them...perhaps infatuated with the subject because of it.

My advise, if you are or anyone else is interested, would be to go to a training class on the subject of home protection and lethal force. Others have named dropped him in this thread , but Massad Ayoob is one of the best in the business. He has a really nice 40 hr "LF2" class that has a focus on the use of a combat shotgun and why it is so effecive. There are a lot of very qualified people out there that tour the major US cities providing education classes about weapons, personal and home defense, and ammo selection. Attending one of these begginger classes will likely give anyone more real and effective info than you will ever find online.

 

[LSeca]

Originally Posted by Huntsman

Including the smallest automatic, the 2.7mm Kolibri. I have a specimen cartridge, it is approximately the size of a grain of rice on steroids.

It has a Wiki page...awesome.

Wow, cool. How did you get a cartridge for it?

 

[LabelKing]

http://www.oldrifles.com/german-pistols.htm

 

[Arethusa]

Originally Posted by LSeca

Yes, you will find a lot of info on firearms and ammunition when you search the internet. There is too much condradictory info out there and it is difficult to tell what is bs and what is not. This link looks like a good bit of info on shot penetration and difficult to dispute for anyone. However, I think we really got into the bird shot and 00 buck stuff too much in the thread, taking away from other important reasons the shotgun is my choice for home defense. I am not going to go into them here anymore, as this thread is a dissaster like a lot of other internet discussions. There are jsut too many stubborn individuals out there that think they have to argue and/or prove something. Some of them can not even legally own a firearm but they will write paragraph after paragraph about them...perhaps infatuated with the subject because of it.

My advise, if you are or anyone else is interested, would be to go to a training class on the subject of home protection and lethal force. Others have named dropped him in this thread , but Massad Ayoob is one of the best in the business. He has a really nice 40 hr "LF2" class that has a focus on the use of a combat shotgun and why it is so effecive. There are a lot of very qualified people out there that tour the major US cities providing education classes about weapons, personal and home defense, and ammo selection. Attending one of these begginger classes will likely give anyone more real and effective info than you will ever find online.
Certainly don't disagree with any of that. Starting a thread looking for advice on home defense with "what is your favorite handgun" is proof enough that he needs more help than he'll get here.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by LSeca

There are jsut too many stubborn individuals out there that think they have to argue and/or prove something. Some of them can not even legally own a firearm but they will write paragraph after paragraph about them...perhaps infatuated with the subject because of it.
Thats pretty cold. I'm not sure what I did to warrant the thinly veiled insults, besides disagree with you and try to carry on a conversation about it...but I have been interested in firearms for much longer than I have not been allowed to own one. I was a gun owner for several years before I was convicted and lost my firearms rights. I've taken training classes, and have frequented indoor pistol and outdoor rifle and shotgun ranges. (much less often of course in recent years, due to my situation) My opinions have been based on the knowledge gained not only from my own personal experience, but those of my family members, who have collectively seen combat in Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, and Desert Storm (although the Desrt Storm combat was aerial, not ground). Also members of both the Bellevue and Seattle police department that I used to work with off-duty on a daily basis (and infrequently shot with), and the various criminal element that I have also associated with over the years (which ranges from theives to drug dealers to militant white supremecists to several multiple murderers). If anything, I feel like I have a very well rounded tactical defense and firearms education for someone of my age because I'm capable of thinking about it from both sides of the fence. I don't really see why wanting to learn as much as you can about firearms and self defense is any worse than wanting to learn as much as you can about cars, sports, or clothes. I've never had to shoot anyone, but I've never had to wear black tie either.

Others have named dropped him in this thread , but Massad Ayoob is one of the best in the business. He has a really nice 40 hr "LF2" class that has a focus on the use of a combat shotgun and why it is so effecive. There are a lot of very qualified people out there that tour the major US cities providing education classes about weapons, personal and home defense, and ammo selection. Attending one of these begginger classes will likely give anyone more real and effective info than you will ever find online.

I'm also not sure if "name dropping" is another snide comment aimed at me or not, but I am more than a little familiar with Mr. Ayoob's home defense ideologies. It's not like I just looked him up online and took a paragraph or two out of context to bolster my arguement. I was attempting to show that one of the top if not the best, self defense trainers in the world has repeatedly said the same thing I was saying in this thread, especially on the maneuverability and retention issues, the latter of which you ended up vehemently disagreeing with.. Which is fine. You can disagree with whatever you want, especially if your personal experience indicates contradictory evidence.. I have read a novel's worth of his tactical and self defense articles throughout the years, including what he is comfortable with and uses to protect his family at home (customized Beretta 92F IIRC) and his retention methodologies. Most of my opinions seem to echo his on the subject, or are just taken straight from his real life experience doing whatever it is I'm reading about. And unless he has begun to embrace the shotgun as the best option in a one gun household within the past few years, he has always cautioned against it in most circumstances before and recommends a pistol first. I know he frequently visits Seattle, but due to my situation I am unable to do any hands on training with him, which I regret. You shoud take the LF1 and LF2 at the Firearms Academy of Seattle if you are interested and have not done so yet. I would highly recommend picking his brain if given the opportunity. If I mentioned him in this thread, its only because I have a great amount of respect for the man, and to be honest, I'd trust his opinion on this particular subject over anyone else's on this board. And JLibourel knows him personally, has edited his articles for publication, has been shooting with the man, has more than likely met his wife and kids, and at some point, has probably been to his house. I wouldn't really dismiss either of our mentionings of Mr. Ayoob as "name dropping", which is a pretty insulting thing to say. Perhaps though, it was a poorly chosen phrase on your part and not meant to insult anyone's character. The benefit of the doubt is yours, I suppose.

 

[retronotmetro]

Just to chime in with my $.02.

IIRC, the "Ayoob doctrine" of home defense is to set up a safe room that is equipped with a shotgun, but to rely primarily on a handgun when moving room to room. Having a free hand allows you to carry a child, open doors, hold a phone (very essential) and other unforeseen tasks while still having a weapon at instant ready while moving place to place.

With regard to choosing shotguns, I also recall him writing articles that challenge the knee jerk "buy a 12 gauge shotgun" argument by making a pretty compelling case for the 20 gauge shotgun.

 

[dkzzzz]

If I could only find "sharks with lazers" for my swimming pool protection.

 

[Kai]

For concealed carry, the best option is a small semi auto made by Kahr Arms

My personal choice is the MK 40.

6 rounds of .40 S&W. Double action only.

Smaller and more compact than most .380s

If you want 9mm, you can go even smaller, but I prefer .40 for self defense.

These pistols are not inexpensive, but they are extremely well made, reliable and reasonably accurate considering their small size.

Trigger pull is very smooth, and the gun is very controllable and predictable shot to shot.


You will not find a better ccw solution.


http://www.kahr.com/pistols_40sw.html#40sw

 

[LSeca]

Originally Posted by retronotmetro

Just to chime in with my $.02.

IIRC, the "Ayoob doctrine" of home defense is to set up a safe room that is equipped with a shotgun, but to rely primarily on a handgun when moving room to room. Having a free hand allows you to carry a child, open doors, hold a phone (very essential) and other unforeseen tasks while still having a weapon at instant ready while moving place to place.

This is good info here. My saferoom is my master bedroom, it has just one entry. He told me that anyone, regardless of skill, will be more accurate with a shotgun (very important to me). This isn't because of the spread pattern, as inside most homes it will not have a chance to expand much, but because everyone is a better shot with a long gun than a hand held pistol or revolver. I seem to recall up to 45% better shot, but I could be wrong there...it has been a while.