The Rise of Style Forum-born Entrepreneurs and their Impact on Style

[RSS]

Originally Posted by radicaldog

Oh noes, here we risk delving into another one of those A&S-Naples relationship debates. But surely current A&S stuff doesn't have waterfalls.
I haven't seen such a sleevehead in my 30+ years as A&S client.

 

[lasbar]

Originally Posted by RSS

I understand. I don't post that many pictures -- perhaps I'll change that this year -- but I love being near if not at the center of things from time to time.

I can easily picture that....

 

[RSS]

Originally Posted by lasbar

I can easily picture that....

Yes ... near the center. But for pictures ... I'll go less out on a limb -- perhaps calling less attention -- in an attempt to score lower on the louche scale.

 

[james_timothy]

Why would one ever want to score lower on the louche scale?

 

[SpooPoker]

Originally Posted by RSS

in an attempt to score lower on the louche scale.

These words will probably never leave my mouth.

 

[RSS]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

I think that there's a lot more commentary online from wearers of RTW shitcanning bespoke stuff than the other way around. Do you feel differently?
Not that you were addressing me ... but given that most of my current purchases are bespoke -- and have been for some years -- I don't have much reason to think about RTW. I have no plans to go backward.

 

[RJE]

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

I think that there's a lot more commentary online from wearers of RTW shitcanning bespoke stuff than the other way around. Do you feel differently?

Yes.

There's very little criticism of bespoke. Partly because the critics have little interest in the particular examples, while the bespeakers have emotion, time, and money invested and feel any criticism of their item is an ad hominem attack - to which they respond with disingenuous remarks about judging from photographs (which only applies to bespoke items, apparently) and increasingly nasty comments about the critic (praise and you're praised; criticise and you'd better have 30 years of tailoring experience...with the OP's own tailor). A fair amount of praise here for bespoke items is praise for the fabric.

I was impressed with RSS's acknowledgement of issues with a few of his pieces. Such maturity is uncommon on SF* (but having seen the size of that yacht handrail, I'm probably just sucking up. Wait until I tell you your jacket isn't level; then you'll know for sure). Things can go wrong and firms don't always respond well to issues, as Manton found.

I don't spot a lot of issues, partly because of a lack of knowledge, partly because of a wide tolerance for what is 'acceptable'. But sometimes I've exchanged PMs or taken photos to a couple of known tailors and had issues 'confirmed' (don't underestimate the desire of your tailor to butter you up. They're in business and you're the customer).

The problem isn't criticism of bespoke, it's more
a) a criticism of RTW, despite several popular and fit-approved SFers who don't wear anything else
b) fluffing of bespoke, as the only path to approved fit.
c) condescension towards bespoke which doesn't cost Savile Row rates (because of the belief that the only reason for the price difference is the skill of the tailor (?) ).

* This isn't meant to sound patronising!

 

[radicaldog]

Originally Posted by RJE

c) condescension towards bespoke which doesn't cost Savile Row rates (because of the belief that the only reason for the price difference is the skill of the tailor (?) ).

Somewhat OT, but I think this is a real issue. Quite annoying.

 

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by RJE

Yes.
There's very little criticism of bespoke. Partly because the critics have little interest in the particular examples, while the bespeakers have emotion, time, and money invested and feel any criticism of their item is an ad hominem attack - to which they respond with disingenuous remarks about judging from photographs (which only applies to bespoke items, apparently) and increasingly nasty comments about the critic (praise and you're praised; criticise and you'd better have 30 years of tailoring experience...with the OP's own tailor). A fair amount of praise here for bespoke items is praise for the fabric.

I think this cuts both ways. I imagine most well-mannered posters don't rip into bespoke partly out of politeness, but those folks probably extend the same courtesy to RTW. By the same token, there can be a defensiveness about bespoke, but we see the same behavior from some folks who wear RTW. The problem with talking about this stuff in general is that the forum is made up of so many different personalities -- some nice, some rude, some knowledgeable, many not.

That said, a few phenomena I've observed:

-- There is a certain class of semi-noobs who like to rip into bad RTW, of which we see a lot, because it's low-hanging fruit. The semi-informed know they can get away with it, whereas attacking a bespoke piece from a forum-approved tailor carries a much higher risk of smackdown from a better-informed/more senior poster. There are, unfortunately, quite a few semi-noobs who want to make a name for themselves by trying to bring the snark, especially when the victim is even noobier.

-- Inexpensive bespoke gets more flak because it's inexpensive and because, IMO, there's a greater failure rate. Not to say the high-dollar stuff is immune to criticism -- few hesitated to criticize Manton's A&S coat with the non-vertical vertical lines.

--The personality of the poster greatly affects how bespoke clothes are received. Mafoo is the poster boy for this.

--A large chunk of the online clothing community fails to seperate personal tastes from the technically incorrect.

It gets to be a sticky wicket in short order.

 

[TC (Houston)]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

-- There is a certain class of semi-noobs who like to rip into bad RTW, of which we see a lot, because it's low-hanging fruit. The semi-informed know they can get away with it, whereas attacking a bespoke piece from a forum-approved tailor carries a much higher risk of smackdown from a better-informed/more senior poster. There are, unfortunately, quite a few semi-noobs who want to make a name for themselves by trying to bring the snark, especially when the victim is even noobier.

Haha, soooo true.

 

[CunningSmeagol]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

That said, a few phenomena I've observed:

-- There is a certain class of semi-noobs who like to rip into bad RTW, of which we see a lot, because it's low-hanging fruit. The semi-informed know they can get away with it, whereas attacking a bespoke piece from a forum-approved tailor carries a much higher risk of smackdown from a better-informed/more senior poster. There are, unfortunately, quite a few semi-noobs who want to make a name for themselves by trying to bring the snark, especially when the victim is even noobier.

-- Inexpensive bespoke gets more flak because it's inexpensive and because, IMO, there's a greater failure rate. Not to say the high-dollar stuff is immune to criticism -- few hesitated to criticize Manton's A&S coat with the non-vertical vertical lines.

--The personality of the poster greatly affects how bespoke clothes are received. Mafoo is the poster boy for this.

--A large chunk of the online clothing community fails to seperate personal tastes from the technically incorrect.

It gets to be a sticky wicket in short order.

Don't forget the manufactured iconoclasts, who criticize high-dollar bespoke coats just to show how enlightened they are. By the same token, these are the same guys who are always saying, "if this were PG or vox, you guys would be totally fawning." They live to point out hypocrisy, and they will find it even if it's not there.

 

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by RSS

I understand. I don't post that many pictures -- perhaps I'll change that this year -- but I love being near if not at the center of things from time to time.

RSS, do you have any idea how long those photos you posted years ago have had to sustain me? Have some mercy and post some more, especially of your Richard Anderson stuff.

 

[kirbya]

Originally Posted by Coburn

Well, FWIW, this is consistent with the long-tail theory: the internet has enabled entrepreneurs to market to small, but global, consumer niches.
My thinking is along the lines Coburn in that it is simply a by-product of the internet. My business could have never existed before the internet. The market is just too small. However, the rise of the internet has allowed me to market and connect to a small group of people across a broad geography (the entire world, essentially) that value my offer. When aggregated around the entire world, it's enough to sustain a modest income for me while providing a high-quality item that would fail miserably if distributed and sold locally. As far at the forum influence on my business -- it couldn't have been any more critical. I consider many of the people on this forum to be experts and I respect their opinions and feedback. It is, mostly, a highly-educated group on classic clothing. It's also where I learned the majority of everything I know about the subject, given that I am not a high-volume consumer of bespoke items. The forums have certainly been good to the entrepreneurs that serve them, but I also have to believe that they have been good to the readers. By participating in these forums, we drop our cost of finding the quality products that satisfy our tastes. Without the forums, I never would have found CEGO for my first custom shirt when I was in New York. Although my tastes still would have led me to purchasing custom shirts, the cost of finding such a high-quality provider would have unquestionably been much higher. So, I welcome the participation of all these retailers because they help me find higher-quality custom clothing at a much, much lower cost of both time, energy, and money. And although we may find that our tastes converge within this population, I can assure you that they diverge even father than those who do not participate! (Thank god). Thoughts?

 

[Despos]

Originally Posted by RSS

I understand. I don't post that many pictures -- perhaps I'll change that this year -- but I love being near if not at the center of things from time to time.


Merely a suggestion. Start slowly, baby steps. Start with just listing what you are wearing in homage to KitonBrioni poasting style. Then surprise us with gnatty style shoe shot. From your post count you certainly do not need my advice but I humbly offer this for the benefit of forum readers who would gain insight from your experience with so many tailors.

 

[RSS]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

RSS, do you have any idea how long those photos you posted years ago have had to sustain me? Have some mercy and post some more, especially of your Richard Anderson stuff.
I'm listening Doc. Thanks for the encouragement.

Originally Posted by Despos

Merely a suggestion. Start slowly, baby steps. Start with just listing what you are wearing in homage to KitonBrioni poasting style. Then surprise us with gnatty style shoe shot. From your post count you certainly do not need my advice but I humbly offer this for the benefit of forum readers who would gain insight from your experience with so many tailors.
We are thinking similarly ... perhaps once or twice a month ... and I will list what am wearing and by whom it was made. I will take this slowly for number of reasons: One, I don't want this to intrude on my time (as if SF doesn't already

); Two -- and more to the point -- I haven't a clue how to use my cell-phone as a camera. But not to worry ... I'm catching up with the times. Why my nephew just taught me how to text ... not that I'll ever use this ability.

BTW ... these will not be posed shots -- except perhaps for details -- they will be candid. That said, I will post any professional shots that are taken this year ... those would typically be posed to a degree.