The Official Wine Thread

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Expecting a lengthy post of purchase pics!

I'll probably pick up a few bottles here and there. Stay tuned. I do need another suit and to pad the savings account. But yes, there will be wine.

 

[Manton]

Moar:

OK, let’s start with the Medoc. This is the most important Bordeaux region by far. It’s like a finger of land that extends northwest from the city of Bordeaux. This is the heart of the famous “Left Bank.” A string of very famous properties lines the Gironde Rive to the east. To the west is a dense forest and west of that the Atlantic. The forest helps blunt the effects of ocean weather.

There are, as noted, four famous villages in this region: St. Estephe, Pauillac, St. Julien and Margaux (moving from north to south). All but six of the 60 wines from the 1855 classification are from these villages. One—Haut-Brion—is from Graves to the south, which will be dealt with later. The other five are “Haut-Medocs” from the general Medoc area but not within the borders of one of those four village communes. The best wine generally comes from within their borders, though there are a handful of exceptions.

Also, not every wine in those villages is a classified growth. As a general matter, being classified means you can charge more—whether the wine deserves it or not. Hence there are some deals to be found among unclassified wines within those four villages. In addition, being outside the four villages is considered, rightly or wrongly, to be a sign of inferior wine. While it’s true that the best plots of land in the Medoc are nearly all in those villages, there are some outstanding wines outside them. Prices, again, tend to be lower.

As noted, the Medoc is divided into two principle parts: the Bas-Medoc in the north and the Haut-Medoc in the south. The four key villages are all in the Haut-Medoc. No one uses the term Bas-Medoc on their label; the wine will simply say “Medoc.” But if you see that, it means it is from the Bas, because any winemaker allowed to use the term “Haut-Medoc” will do so.

Bas-Medoc wines are cheaper overall than Haut-Medoc, whether the latter are classified or not. There are no classified growths in the Bas-Medoc. The gravel gets thin up there, with more clay, hence you see less Cab Sauv and more Merlot making for earlier maturing wines. There will still be a lot of Cab in most blends, however, but often at around 50% or below.

This, if not quite "everyday" wine country, certainly at least a land of relative values. It's also the place to go to find characteristically "Bordeaux" wines that don't take decades to mature, but still taste like a Bordeaux is supposed to taste.

Young drinkers worth looking for from this area include Le Boscq, La Cardonne, Loudenne, Patache d’Aux, and Plagnac. These are generally ready within 3-5 years (earlier in weak years) and in great years can improve for 7 or 8 or even 10. Holding longer than that is not worth the risk.

In addition there are a few wines from the Bas that are quite ageworthy for 10-15 years in great vintages and sometimes rival the quality of lesser classified growths from the Haut-Medoc, but typically at a lower price. These would include Potensac, Tour-Haut-Caussan, Les Ormes Sorbet, Les Grands Chenes, La Tour St. Bonnet, and La Tour de By. Of these, Potensac and Tour-Haut-Caussan are the best and are as good as or better than most fifth growths and some higher growths.

Look for the above wines in great vintages like 2000, 2005 and (so it is believed) 2009 to be outstanding and to hold for a long time. In lesser years such as 2002 or 2004, pay less and drink up sooner!

One other notable is Greysac, which has been enormously successful in the US market. I like this wine a lot, even if it has a bit of the generic “Bordeaux” about it. But that is why I like it. It’s a good wine to showcase a very typical Bordeaux flavor and perfume without a lot of terrior distinction. It’s an early maturer, never harsh, and typically well made in weak years. A dependable stand-by. Critics hate it. It probably is a tad overpriced, but it's reliable and it is everwhere.

 

[gomestar]

Awesome stuff, I am looking forward to the write ups on the villages

 

[Piobaire]

Can't concentrate on longs posts at work. Too many phone calls

Must wait for weekend.

 

[ryansmith]

Change of heart. 95 Sociano-Mallet and 98 Las Cases instead

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by gomestar

Awesome stuff, I am looking forward to the write ups on the villages

I think I will do the villages last, I want to concentrate for the time being on the lower priced stuff to get the boys interested.

 

[james_timothy]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Can't concentrate on longs posts at work.

The first classes of Manton's school of french wines is in session- be prepared to do your homework.

Preferably by drinking your homework. I was going to go off and find a bottle of Greysac just to build a baseline.

 

[PandArts]

Good lord after reading Manton's lessons on Bord. I really need to make more money!

In the mean time I ventured back into the Rioja region with a new release by a produce I've enjoyed very much in the past: SeñorÃo de P.Peciña

2007 SeñorÃo de P.Peciña Joven Rioja, Spain

This one is a very young wine and very cool and bright from nose to finish. It's colour is very weak and a little on the cloudy side. The nose was very bright with citrus notes up front with very quiet white pepper and red berry notes lurking in the back...hinting that this just might open up with some time (alas not enough for my palate

) Upon research I found that it is a blend of 95% Tempranillo, 3% Graciano and 2% Garnacha with absolutely no oak (all stainless steel) making this a very clean Rioja on the palate...not for lovers of bigger dark fruit and spice lovers. I liken this to the Evodia Garnacha. The palate is bright, not jammy or lucious but crisp, almost like it was trying to be a red Vinho Verde with crisp citrus notes taking the lead with red berries ala sour raspberries bring up the rear. Way in the background I do detect very subtle and quite notes of leather and coffee been spice. The finish could have been longer and I wished that it would have offered up some new notes of earthy and spice but instead it to fell in line with the bright chorus of the nose and palate. The tannic structure was almost non-existant so this need to be consumed now. I actually think that this would make a great "picnic" wine for those who don't do whites. As for opening up? It did a little and the fruits notes got a tad darker and the spice notes a tad warmer but after an hour it reached it's peak. All in all, for less than $15.00 US it wasn't too bad but not one I'll likely revisit.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by PandArts

Good lord after reading Manton's lessons on Bord. I really need to make more money!

Hey, for now I am concetrating on the cheap stuff.

 

[foodguy]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Here is the shoot out I shall be having in a few weeks.

In this corner, the Old World:

DIDIER DAGUENEAU Pouilly-FumÃ

Pur Sang 2005


In this corner, a lady wine maker from the New World:

MERRY EDWARDS Sauvignon Blanc Russian River Valley
2007


that'll be an interesting tasting, but i question characterizing dagueneau as "old world." he may come from there, but he's certainly not typical of it. taste other pouilly-fumes and you'll see. in fact, his are sometimes criticized in that part of the world for being outsized ... in other words "american."

 

[foodguy]

Originally Posted by gomestar

I dug up where I got this info:

"Cornelis van Leeuwen has probed furhter and discovered there is no absolute correlation between how deep the roots go and how good the wine is ... Th key factor for quality is the regulation of water supply - just slightly less than the vine wants - rather than the depth of the roots, which can vary from 7m in Margaux to 2 M on the Cotes, the steep limestone hillside on top of which the town of St. Emilion perches, such as at Chateau Ausone, and just 0.4m on the plateau west of St. Emilion"

Wine atlas, P. 85
there is very little in winemaking that you can't find two scientists to disagree on. usually, with great vigor.

 

[Piobaire]

Quinta do Crasto
Vintage Port 2004
Free Shipping on 2 or more

***** 48% OFF!! *****


93 Points - Wine Spectator
92 Points - Wine Enthusiast

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by foodguy

that'll be an interesting tasting, but i question characterizing dagueneau as "old world." he may come from there, but he's certainly not typical of it. taste other pouilly-fumes and you'll see. in fact, his are sometimes criticized in that part of the world for being outsized ... in other words "american."

Based on my reading, true. I gotta concoct a headline somehow though!

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by foodguy

that'll be an interesting tasting, but i question characterizing dagueneau as "old world." he may come from there, but he's certainly not typical of it. taste other pouilly-fumes and you'll see. in fact, his are sometimes criticized in that part of the world for being outsized ... in other words "american."

is this because of his use of oak? I still see his "getting more terroire out of sauvignong blanc than many do from Pinot Noir" as an old world characterisitic, especially when you look at what the Kiwis are doing. I feel like the Kiwis are almost becoming a mockery of themselves with the super grassy and fruity wines. Then again, my idea of 'new world' at my age is far different from yours or Pio's or Manton's.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by gomestar

is this because of his use of oak? I still see his "getting more terroire out of sauvignong blanc than many do from Pinot Noir" as an old world characterisitic, especially when you look at what the Kiwis are doing. I feel like the Kiwis are almost becoming a mockery of themselves with the super grassy and fruity wines. Then again, my idea of 'new world' at my age is far different from yours or Pio's or Manton's.

Again, based on my readings, yes, the oak was the main culprit. Something else too, but I can't remember what. Might have had to do with an aspect of how he tended his vines. However, I've repeatedly read what you said too, that he got more terroire out of SB than most producers of any other grape. There is no disputing that he is held as something of a genius by many folks.

FWIW, Merry also uses more oak in her SB than I've ever tasted. She also gets a good minerality. You really should try and order one of her 07 or 08 SBs from somewhere.

You have to admit, my 05 Pur Sang with my 07 ME is friggin' brilliant.