Poll: You Decide-Refund or No Refund? Read then vote!

[andyw]

Hi all, please weigh-in with an opinion to decide if I get a refund on a SF purchase gone badly. The seller demurred on a refund because we differ on the definition and the expectations the term NWT, but has suggested the SF Forum decide for him. BTW, I've reviewed this poll with the seller before posting and he asked that I include the PM's between us (long PM exchange below).

Here are the facts: I made an offer for a NWT RLPL Corduroy Jacket; seller accepted. I discover wear and damage to the collar, send photos, seller agrees it is shopworn but says the garment is still new and the damage in an area not seen when the jacket is worn. I've included several images of the collar condition and here's the link to the original SF listing which is silent on the collar condition. http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=154146

Frankly, I'm pissed I have to do this and endure the sometimes raucous exchange this Forum can serve up - for some this is blood sport, but I'll keep an open mind that good comments will surface along with priceless sarcasm. I hope a consensus prevails that if a garment is listed as NWT, it is indeed new and if it isn't the seller should stand behind it and give a refund. More than the principal, I just want my $350 back.....it gets me a third of the way to another pair of EG's.

So, what do you think? Please keep this civil and funny.
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PM Exchange

Originally Posted by andyw
Gary, I haven't heard from you so I will post on the SF Forum as you suggested to get my refund. You have a problem if I quote your last post to get the ball rolling? Andy


Quote:
Originally Posted by WhateverYouLike
Hi Andy,

I got the pictures. The wear is, as you said, at the fold line. This is unavoidable with a material like corduroy, in my experience. Even a jacket in the store would have it to some extent, although perhaps not as bad as this...

I have to say, I don't think it's really reasonable for me to take this back since the jacket IS in unworn condition with nothing more than shopwear. I don't sell lots of stuff, and really would rather not deal with reselling since I'm in the process of moving...

As a compromise, we could let the forum be the mediator? If the vast majority agrees with you, I'll refund you. What do you think? I don't want to be an asshole, it's just that I don't sell often and it's just not feasible for me to be taking returns and relisting items if it's a negligible detail like this is (IMO, anyway).

Gary


Quote:
Originally Posted by andyw
Hi Gary, thanks for replying.....I will take some pictures.

The collar condition is not noticeable when folded, but when worn up, it is evident there is wear at the fold line. My guess is that this is shop wear, i.e. sitting on a hanger. I did not notice this originally as I only tried the garment on after receiving it and the overall nappiness of the corduroy did not draw attention to the collar. It was only after showing the coat off to my son, who just returned from college Thursday and I was brushing the coat that I noticed it.

Like many buying on SF and other places, I look for a bargain, and relied on the NWT description to make the offer to you. I'm writing now because the coat is not NWT and I would like you to consider accepting it for a refund.

Regards, Andy
BTW, please send me your email address, the photos might need more memory to transmit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WhateverYouLike
Hi Andy,

The jacket was definitely new with tags, only tried on. Not worn for more than 3 minutes as it didn't fit me. Do you have any pictures? I don't know what you mean by the pile is disfigured.

I am confused as to why you are contacting me after a week has passed about an issue of wear - if it wasn't even noticeable, why is it such a big deal?


Quote:
Originally Posted by andyw
Hi Gary, Were you aware of the wear marks on the collar of the jacket? When the collar is laid out the fold area is worn, i.e. the pile has been disfigured. My son pointed this out to me tonight. I have not worn the garment outside and the tags are still on. I'd like to return the garment. Regards, Andy

 

[phxlawstudent]

I read that the seller offered you a refund. Is he paying shipping too? I think that gets you back to square one. I think you should just leave it at that. No one is perfect, your blowing this up more than it has to be.


As to whether that is NWOT, is the garment supposed to be like that? If not, then no. If its normal or within tolerances of the manufacturing, then yes. No ******* clue one way or the other. I don't work for RL.

 

[Harold falcon]

Refund.

 

[teddieriley]

Not normal shopwear, unless you can convince me it is part of the style of the jacket, which you wont'. There is likely a reason the buyer bought the jacket cheaply enough to flip on B&S, and there it is. If the OP is willing to refund $25-$50, might be something to consider.

 

[andyw]

Seller will not offer refund but wanted SF to mediate a decision. I'm only posting this because its the only way to get treated fairly. Thanks.

Originally Posted by phxlawstudent

I read that the seller offered you a refund. Is he paying shipping too? I think that gets you back to square one. I think you should just leave it at that. No one is perfect, your blowing this up more than it has to be.


As to whether that is NWOT, is the garment supposed to be like that? If not, then no. If its normal or within tolerances of the manufacturing, then yes. No ******* clue one way or the other. I don't work for RL.

 

[Tomasso]

Originally Posted by andyw

Frankly, I'm pissed I have to do this
I would be as well. The collar is flawed and the seller should have pointed it out in his listing. A refund is in order.

 

[zacattacks]

I would definitely expect a refund for that

 

[LesterSnodgrass]

In general I think that buyer's remorse is not a reason to request/demand a refund. That falls on the buyer. But in this case, it looks to me like it is more than what should be acceptable as a "new" garment. Even if it is new, as in something with shop wear, a seller should explicitly reveal that this type of flaw (if you call it a flaw) exists.

My opinion is that a refund or partial refund is in order.

As an aside, I find this manner of dealing with the issue quite gentlemanly and I commend both buyer and seller for being open to such an unorthodox way to resolve the dispute.

 

[phxlawstudent]

Originally Posted by andyw

Seller will not offer refund but wanted SF to mediate a decision. I'm only posting this because its the only way to get treated fairly. Thanks.

Oh...

Thats not cool. Thats a refund. All damage should be listed. New means new. New means undamaged.

Frankly to have to have us mediate this is unbecoming of the seller. Shame on you. To avoid having to give out refunds you should disclose all damage. And if you miss it, and the buyer finds it, you profusely apologize and do what it takes to make things right, because its your fault for not spotting and identifying the damage. Now...if the buyer did the damage and then wants a refund... I'm not going there. Both parties are agreed that the damage was there. What the **** is there to dispute?

 

[SpooPoker]

If there is a flaw on a NWT item, it needs to be pointed out for sure. Just because it has a plastic tag on it with the pricetag, does not make it brand new. How many times have you seen damaged goods "NWT" at the stores?

Granted, its not noticible when worn, I get that. Maybe the two of you can meet in the middle for a partial refund if thats acceptable? Coat still looks great though.

One thing I cant stand is the "I just cant deal with ......" excuse. You sell here for FREE, have the option to take NO paypal fees, etc. Its a dream come true to sell here. I would deal with anything thrown at me to keep customers happy, and to have the opportunity to buy/sell here.

Summary : partial refund if mutually acceptable, otherwise seller should take it back if it was not noted in the description.

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

Originally Posted by phxlawstudent

Oh...

Thats not cool. Thats a refund. All damage should be listed. New means new. New means undamaged.

+1

Even if this damage did occur before the original sale the jacket is no longer a condition in which any shop would knowingly sell it other than described as 'damaged' and at a discount. I certainly do not think it can reasonably be described as NWT.

 

[quevola]

Originally Posted by harvey_birdman

Refund.

+1

 

[x26]

Originally Posted by harvey_birdman

Refund.

Absolutely.

 

[shasta]

i voted for refund but that is one ugly ass coat! OP were you drunk when you agreed to buy this gem for 350???!

 

[BerryWall]

This jacket is not "shopworn", it is damaged. The photographs clearly attest to that. The presence of tags means nothing in light of the state of the collar. The only right thing to do is to give a full refund. That that course is is in question is unconscionable.