Path to IT job

[Hombre Secreto]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

foreign legion

heh heh

5 years though?

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by deadly7

His point is that you're lucky, not that you're the norm. Most kids that graduate with a CS degree can barely tell their ass from a line of C code, but are savvy enough to land decent jobs with good wages. Then you've got the smart people who made the most of their degree, know how to apply programming theory [or networking/sys-adming theory] and are making uber bank in a few years. But then you've also got the people that are both A: lazy/bad at CS and B: not driven to better their prospects. CS is very effort-based; if you slack off in school it can easily bite you ********** if you have nothing to fall back on.
Degrees and IT can be an interesting topic. Plenty of people in IT earn six-figures without a degree, though they probably have good certifications and experience to match. I have a classics degree, which is essentially worthless. That said, I don't think anybody really gives a **** about things like MIS degrees outside of HR and most HR departments just care that you have A degree, but it doesn't matter which one. They seem to be looking for the certs and years experience before they pass you on. Type of degree is a very minor factor imo. What matters beyond the HR interview are your skills and whether you can demonstrate them. Were I interviewing a candidate, it would be almost completely irrelevant to me. I WOULD pick a guy with a CS degree over one without, all else being equal, but everything else rarely is equal. CS is more valuable to more areas of IT than MIS, which ranks up there with my Classics degree in usefulness. CS is very useful in any part of the field. I would say that my recent job search validated this. Nobody cared about my degree. They looked at my experience and certifications. In the 2-3 weeks I was looking for a job, I fielded calls from everything from small companies to a couple multinationals and a whole bunch of recruiters. I went with a mid-size that would let me run with the ball, had good projects coming up, and would give me full-time salary + benefits (one of the multinationals was very tempting but it was only a 3 month contract). I would care about a couple things from the interviewer's seat. 1) The tech interview; does he do well here or at least show that he's intelligent and has the right sort of brain for the job and will come up to speed quickly 2) interpersonal skills. If you don't have 'em, **** off. It takes one person to sour the impression of an entire IT department, and were I managing it, I wouldn't tolerate it. If you have #2, you can be at a huge advantage in IT because so many people are lacking basic communication skills. Seriously.

 

[deadly7]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

Degrees and IT can be an interesting topic. Plenty of people in IT earn six-figures without a degree, though they probably have good certifications and experience to match. I have a classics degree, which is essentially worthless. That said, I don't think anybody really gives a **** about things like MIS degrees outside of HR and most HR departments just care that you have A degree, but it doesn't matter which one. They seem to be looking for the certs and years experience before they pass you on. Type of degree is a very minor factor imo. What matters beyond the HR interview are your skills and whether you can demonstrate them.
In the newer generations, young people will get tossed out without a CS degree and a high GPA. This is more true for programming positions and entry-level IT jobs, where HR is sifting through hundreds of applicants. If a candidate is lucky, the resume reviewer will be the IT manager, but more often than not it's just an HR person looking for the buzzword of the day. So I would strongly contend that point that the degree name is unimportant.

Were I interviewing a candidate, it would be almost completely irrelevant to me. I WOULD pick a guy with a CS degree over one without, all else being equal, but everything else rarely is equal. CS is more valuable to more areas of IT than MIS, which ranks up there with my Classics degree in usefulness. CS is very useful in any part of the field.

CS is useful everywhere. Which is why it's so popular. It's also damn hard to be really good at CS, which is why so much software sucks.

I would say that my recent job search validated this. Nobody cared about my degree. They looked at my experience and certifications. In the 2-3 weeks I was looking for a job, I fielded calls from everything from small companies to a couple multinationals and a whole bunch of recruiters. I went with a mid-size that would let me run with the ball, had good projects coming up, and would give me full-time salary + benefits (one of the multinationals was very tempting but it was only a 3 month contract).

You, my friend, are very lucky. Props to you. I've only met a handful of people that are truly satisfied with their IT jobs. Surprisingly, the majority are sys/net admins for big corporations/universities.

I would care about a couple things from the interviewer's seat. 1) The tech interview; does he do well here or at least show that he's intelligent and has the right sort of brain for the job and will come up to speed quickly 2) interpersonal skills. If you don't have 'em, **** off. It takes one person to sour the impression of an entire IT department, and were I managing it, I wouldn't tolerate it. If you have #2, you can be at a huge advantage in IT because so many people are lacking basic communication skills. Seriously.

1. The tech interview goes without saying. "Prove that you know what you're doing". Much more important in CS than other places, because without properly managed IT infrastructure, nobody can do anything nowadays.
2. Oh yes. Knowing how to talk well and be effective can help a long ways. It's especially important when you have to deal with users.


GQ: where do you work? How does your place do coworker communications? I've seen some great systems (surprisingly, IRC has worked amazingly well for almost every tech location I've seen use it) and some awful proprietary systems.

 

[bye4now122]

Originally Posted by deadly7

Web design and marketing? Then why not pick a marketing/advertising major that suits your interest choice? If you want to be taken seriously, start building a portfolio. Look and see if your university hires/accepts students working on their websites. It looks killer coming out of college. Contact local small businesses and ask if they want to meet and discuss their website (free of charge, of course. never charge for the meeting when you're a no-name guy). Basically: get your hands dirty.
I'm already working on a couple of websites for student groups/clubs and one for a huge fundraising event, one of the largest University fundraisers in the nation. This year I'm going to apply to work on the University's websites, I've just been trying to get a bit of experience under my belt. As for not taking a marketing/advertising major, I go to Indiana University and we have a pretty competitive business school that I wouldn't have been able to get into, and in the long run I'd rather be more focused in technology. My business minor is actually marketing specific, and If I don't have a solid job when I graduate, Kelley (IU's business school) offers a few MBA programs that are only available to business and Informatics undergrads.

 

[michaelp123]

Programming is not saturated. The job market is pretty darn good for experienced software developers, who know their ****.

Anyway, regardless, go to college.. do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get into a good school. Deal with the loans. Live on campus, screw co-eds, get an awesome education that will take you places. You will not regret it.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by sho'nuff

GQGeek always puts the /thread to IT discussions.

Twice.

Yeah, take advice on an IT career from somebody can't even participate in an internet forum without double-posting. Good plan.

 

[fenfir]

Learn to express yourself and your passion and knowledge for computers to the lay man and getting a job in support should be a piece of cake. Communicating with people is an often lacking skill in computer geeks.

 

[MrMonkey]

The approach that worked out for me, was to do further education which showed a grasp of the basics in IT. Not sure of the American levels, but this is 1 level beyond the basic compulsory level of education required (basically, to age 18). Then I looked for a company to have a shot at getting a little experience, and gre from there. I did have the option of studying at University (I think you know this as college) and started, sponsored by the company. However, I came to look for other opportunities, and found that attitude and real hands on ability was of more interest to employers. Now, this is only half of it.

You need to make sure you get yourself in the rigth frame of mind. I would not advise staying at the 'coder' level for a career. as numerous posts on here point out this is more saturated, and also despite the issues and horror stories, this is where you get undercut. I would advise setting a further goal, and guage your entry on this. I have [I'm told] a natural ability for working out solutions to challenges, good communication and personal skills, good planning and an appreciation of business. So, my target level in IT was a Technical Consultant / designer. Coding was good, as I tend to like to know about the things I am recommending and gave a great insight into software. However, I had to put myself out there, go for different pieces of work. But it pays off, and although I now work for a major consultancy and services company, I have worked for myself supplying specialist services where needed etc, and it was very satisfying.

 

[il ciclista]

I'm going to a private uni. for Computer information Technology, and ultimately i want to be a DBA. Like others said a good education pays off...my class is 4 people. It really helps with the learning experience.

 

[sidewinder13]

Originally Posted by deadly7

Most kids that graduate with a CS degree can barely tell their ass from a line of C code

This kinda sounds like me

 

[il ciclista]

Lol, some just do it because mom or dad wanted them to, so they just do bare minimum and float their way through college.

 

[holymadness]

Bizarre that someone who wanted to be a filmmaker now wants to work in IT. Why not farming? Or biochemical engineering? Choose your own non sequitur. I don't see the link.

Are you qualified to do any of these things? Are they going to hold your interest or do you just want to make a guaranteed dollar in an industry you perceive as stable? If the answer to either of these questions is no, you are either headed for massive failure in the short term, or else job dissatisfaction and a mid-life crisis in the long term.

People seem to be treating this thread as if it's about the nature of the IT industry. It's not. This is a thread about lacking common sense and not getting your **** together early in life. Globetrotter's post about the foreign legion was more realistic than some of the fanciful imagining going on here.

 

[il ciclista]

Well it's never to late to get your act together! I did 6yrs in the military just to get out and go to school..so yeah graduation at 32 is awesome lol.

If it were me i'd join the AF or coast guard and get some experience there.

 

[HgaleK]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

foreign legion

Do you have any experience with this?

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

Path to IT job

1) White face makeup
2) Clown nose & hair
3) Sharpen teeth
4) Attain magic powers
5) Eat children
6) ????
7) Profit!!