New Computer Help

[Luc-Emmanuel]

Originally Posted by Manton

chasis/motherboard is RAID 0. Now, I understand that RAID 0 offers very fast access times, but no mirroring.
So I am back on the fence about RAID 1. It seems that whatever my computer can do, not making the effort to backup at least once a week to a totally separate external drive is a serious mistake. If that is so, then what is the real advantage to RAID 1?
RAID0: to make matter worse, your whole logical "volume" is made out of two drives, i.e: 2 250gigs physical drives in raid0 makes one logical disk of 500gigs, which means if ONE physical drive fails, your whole volume is toast: in raid0, you double your failure rate, for a speed gain.
The advantage of raid1 is the "immediate" data loss, if one drive fails, the other drive is up to date with your latest data, whereas a backup will only be as current as the latest backup date. On the other hand, if you happen to delete an important file, it will be deleted instantly from your other drive as well. Hence, no backup.
So really, raid1 and backups address different needs, and I think a backup is more important than raid1 for a home user.

!luc

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by Manton

Maybe they can do it with others, but that appears to be all they offer. Then again, I didn't press them to see if they would offer other sizes.

My point is that drive size really shouldn't matter to the raid controller. I'd be interested to know what kind of raid controller they're using because it sounds buggy, which is definitely something you do not want to worry about.

You could also use a service like this http://www.mydocsonline.com/default.htm and run daily backups to a remote site.

That way it would be automated and wouldn't depend on you remembering to back things up, which is actually a big problem with people doing manual backups. Data loss always seems to occur when they forget.

EDIT: I'm not vouching for that particular service, it was just one of the first to come up in google. I've never used one but they're a good idea for home users in principle, since they eliminate the biggest point of failure (you forgetting).

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by Luc-Emmanuel

On the other hand, if you happen to delete an important file, it will be deleted instantly from your other drive as well. Hence, no backup.


Also know as: I deleted an 18.5 gig .rar file last night and have re-downloaded it all over again, because I did not make a back up!

Jon.

 

[Dakota rube]

So... do some of you guys get, um..... "chubby" when you're talking about RAID and arrays and sound cards and clockrates and stuff? 'Cause I can kind of sense that you do.

 

[Luc-Emmanuel]

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

So... do some of you guys get, um..... "chubby" when you're talking about RAID and arrays and sound cards and clockrates and stuff? 'Cause I can kind of sense that you do.
Ask Violinist.

!luc

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

So... do some of you guys get, um..... "chubby" when you're talking about RAID and arrays and sound cards and clockrates and stuff? 'Cause I can kind of sense that you do.

Are you calling me a nerd?

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

Are you calling me a nerd?

No, geek.

Jon.

 

[j]

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

So... do some of you guys get, um..... "chubby" when you're talking about RAID and arrays and sound cards and clockrates and stuff? 'Cause I can kind of sense that you do.
I don't, but I do like to try to help people before they have a problem. I really wouldn't set up a system anymore without RAID - not having it means more business for me when a hard drive fails, but it seems to be more impressive that a user can keep working on something important while I get it fixed.

I guess it just depends on how much you value/worry about downtime. People tell you that restoring from a backup and reinstalling Windows on a new hard drive is "no big deal", but for me, it takes a few days at least until everything is back how I want it on a new machine, and I continually think of programs I forgot to install, often right at the time I want to use them. It's a pain. For a vanilla home system you don't rely on, I guess it's fine, but to me, it's ridiculous not to spend the extra hundred bucks or whatever (assuming we're not talking Dell prices) to set up another drive and RAID 1. At my rates, or anyone's who is worth hiring, recovering from a single drive crash is going to cost a lot more than that, not including the value of your time lost.

 

[Manton]

Thing is, j, it is just a home computer for me, and its downtime is not such a hassle. If I lose data, that would be upsetting. But if I backup regularly, that should not be a problem, no?

The practical cost to me, as things stand, for RAID 1 is something like $600. Or I buy the lower priced computer and try to install it myself, which I'm not sure I can pull off, or that the computer can support it.

 

[brimley]

One of the main things I look for in a computer is noise. It's worth noting that running two drives will increase noise by a LOT in some dell boxes because they are prone to resonance issues. It also uses more power and contributes to system heating. If you're comfortable making an external backup weekly, skip the RAID.

The onboard sound is fine for what you're doing with it.

I would suggest the cheaper graphics card. People who tell you that you should have a fast card to push a big monitor are generally talking about gaming, since LCDs look best in their native resolutions and it's tough to push frames at 1600x1050 or whatever. That said, there doesn't appear to be a downside to the 7900 GS: it's quite a bit faster and it appears to draw a reasonable amount of power (~45 W vs ~30 W). My advice is, if you think you'll ever need more horsepower, it's worth to wait because you'll be seeing a lot of HD-related improvements in GPUs. But do whatever will help you sleep at night, and if running maxed out Aero helps you sleep at night, godspeed.

(power reference: http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=9354 )

To another poster in the thread, BTX was supposed to be dying out since Intel started making processors that have reasonable power dissipations. However, the XPS 410 is a BTX chassis as evidenced by the large front intake. This isn't all that bad; I have a Dell 5150 as my work PC and it's actually very quiet with one of the bonfire dual cores. It hurts the upgrade factor, but hey, that's just how it is with Dell.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by Manton

Thing is, j, it is just a home computer for me, and its downtime is not such a hassle. If I lose data, that would be upsetting. But if I backup regularly, that should not be a problem, no?

The practical cost to me, as things stand, for RAID 1 is something like $600. Or I buy the lower priced computer and try to install it myself, which I'm not sure I can pull off, or that the computer can support it.

If you buy a card yourself I'll be happy to help you out. Raid controllers really aren't difficult to configure.

Oh and I agree with nyf on the noise factor. It's something that really irritates me. You can get some super-quiet drives, but you never know what you'll be getting with a dell.

 

[Brian SD]

Manton, don't get the seperate sound card. Onboard sound is generally very good these days on any motherboard over $100 retail

 

[A Y]

The recent Dells have been surprisingly quiet, even when we've installed multiple drives in one. They're all Core 2 Duos of varying speeds.

I don't think RAID is a big deal for your kind of usage. I'd rather spend that money on a really nice display like a 30-inch monitor or a 2nd 24-inch monitor and the necessary video card for either one --- you need a dual-head video card for either one.

I think it's more important to make all of the human-computer interfaces as nice and comfortable as possible, and the monitor is one of the most limiting parts of a computer's interface. With 2 24-inch monitors, I'd orient them vertically (they rotate on their stands), so the long axis is vertical, and put them side by side. You save on some desk space, and it's fantastic for reading and writing, especially if you have to compare two documents. I know lots of computer programmers who work with this kind of setup.

--Andre

 

[raley]

Originally Posted by Manton

Thing is, j, it is just a home computer for me, and its downtime is not such a hassle. If I lose data, that would be upsetting. But if I backup regularly, that should not be a problem, no?

The practical cost to me, as things stand, for RAID 1 is something like $600. Or I buy the lower priced computer and try to install it myself, which I'm not sure I can pull off, or that the computer can support it.


If you are thinking about installing it yourself, I would advise you to not waste your time with that, but rather go the whole way and build the whole thing yourself. It may sound scary at first, but building your own PC is actually quite easy. There are tons of guides out there whether you want a hardcore gaming PC (you don't) or the best value PC out there.

I'm not sure what Dell is charging you for these things, but you could probably get something way better quality-wise than what Dell is offering for $500-700 (though I haven't checked what components are good recently, since it changes every couple of months, but it should be around or close to this range, very possibly cheaper).

The negative is that if something breaks you have to figure out what it is yourself and fix it. But, you will also learn a lot more about computers by building your own, and will probably be smarter about using your computer which will prevent something bad from happening. And aside from that, if a piece of hardware actually does fail, you should be able to warranty it with the manufacturer, or since you will know more about computers, will be able to diagnose it and replace just that individual part for way cheaper than the cost of the whole machine.

There are also other forums dedicated to things like this (www.hardforum.com and many others), and I'm sure there are a lot of people here that would be willing to help you as well.


Edit: For instance, here is one sample system guide that could give you a good starting point.

http://techreport.com/etc/2007q1/sys...e/index.x?pg=2

If you click next at the bottom there there is a different processor that would probably be better for you at only 79$. I would probably want to use something other than integrated graphics, so like Brian mentioned, there is also a graphics card that will get the job done listed there for 120$. This will get you in the 600$ range, although this only includes one harddrive. You could buy another one for an increase in price to do RAID. This also doesn't come with a keyboard/mouse/monitor, but I assume you already have some of that stuff. A monitor is probably another 200$.

Of course, there are many other parts guides out there, and as it says at the top of this one, it is not going for the lowest price but rather the best value. You could also get the job done for much closer to 500$ I'm guessing, but would be using parts that are made a few more months old. Just something to think about, anyway.

 

[Manton]

I would not know where to start, building my own. The price is certainly attractive. The Dell I want will cost about $2k, with the specs described above and a 24" monitor.