Rugger
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Who has an account to the NYT? **** that ****.
7 pages long, but that's the gist of it.Is Law School a Losing Game?
By DAVID SEGAL
Published: January 8, 2011
IF there is ever a class in how to remain calm while trapped beneath $250,000 in loans, Michael Wallerstein ought to teach it.
Here he is, sitting one afternoon at a restaurant on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, a tall, sandy-haired, 27-year-old radiating a kind of surfer-dude serenity. His secret, if that's the right word, is to pretty much ignore all the calls and letters that he receives every day from the dozen or so creditors now hounding him for cash.
"And I don't open the e-mail alerts with my credit score," he adds. "I can't look at my credit score any more."
Mr. Wallerstein, who can't afford to pay down interest and thus watches the outstanding loan balance grow, is in roughly the same financial hell as people who bought more home than they could afford during the real estate boom. But creditors can't foreclose on him because he didn't spend the money on a house.
He spent it on a law degree. And from every angle, this now looks like a catastrophic investment.
Well, every angle except one: the view from law schools. To judge from data that law schools collect, and which is published in the closely parsed U.S. News and World Report annual rankings, the prospects of young doctors of jurisprudence are downright rosy.
In reality, and based on every other source of information, Mr. Wallerstein and a generation of J.D.'s face the grimmest job market in decades. Since 2008, some 15,000 attorney and legal-staff jobs at large firms have vanished, according to a Northwestern Law study. Associates have been laid off, partners nudged out the door and recruitment programs have been scaled back or eliminated.
And with corporations scrutinizing their legal expenses as never before, more entry-level legal work is now outsourced to contract temporary employees, both in the United States and in countries like India. It's common to hear lawyers fret about the sort of tectonic shift that crushed the domestic steel industry decades ago.
But improbably enough, law schools have concluded that life for newly minted grads is getting sweeter, at least by one crucial measure. In 1997, when U.S. News first published a statistic called "graduates known to be employed nine months after graduation," law schools reported an average employment rate of 84 percent. In the most recent U.S. News rankings, 93 percent of grads were working "” nearly a 10-point jump.
In the Wonderland of these statistics, a remarkable number of law school grads are not just busy "” they are raking it in. Many schools, even those that have failed to break into the U.S. News top 40, state that the median starting salary of graduates in the private sector is $160,000. That seems highly unlikely, given that Harvard and Yale, at the top of the pile, list the exact same figure.
How do law schools depict a feast amid so much famine?
"Enron-type accounting standards have become the norm," says William Henderson of Indiana University, one of many exasperated law professors who are asking the American Bar Association to overhaul the way law schools assess themselves. "Every time I look at this data, I feel dirty."
IT is an open secret, Professor Henderson and others say, that schools finesse survey information in dozens of ways. And the survey's guidelines, which are established not by U.S. News but by the American Bar Association, in conjunction with an organization called the National Association for Law Placement, all but invite trimming.
A law grad, for instance, counts as "employed after nine months" even if he or she has a job that doesn't require a law degree. Waiting tables at Applebee's? You're employed. Stocking aisles at Home Depot? You're working, too.
Number-fudging games are endemic, professors and deans say, because the fortunes of law schools rise and fall on rankings, with reputations and huge sums of money hanging in the balance. You may think of law schools as training grounds for new lawyers, but that is just part of it.
They are also cash cows.
Tuition at even mediocre law schools can cost up to $43,000 a year. Those huge lecture-hall classes "” remember "The Paper Chase"? "” keep teaching costs down. There are no labs or expensive equipment to maintain. So much money flows into law schools that law professors are among the highest paid in academia, and law schools that are part of universities often subsidize the money-losing fields of higher education.
"If you're a law school and you add 25 kids to your class, that's a million dollars, and you don't even have to hire another teacher," says Allen Tanenbaum, a lawyer in Atlanta who led the American Bar Association's commission on the impact of the economic crisis on the profession and legal needs. "That additional income goes straight to the bottom line."
There were fewer complaints about fudging and subsidizing when legal jobs were plentiful. But student loans have always been the financial equivalent of chronic illnesses because there is no legal way to shake them. So the glut of diplomas, the dearth of jobs and those candy-coated employment statistics have now yielded a crop of furious young lawyers who say they mortgaged their future under false pretenses. You can sample their rage, and their admonitions, on what are known as law school scam blogs, with names like Shilling Me Softly, Subprime JD and Rose Colored Glasses.
Who has an account to the NYT? **** that ****.
Everybody who ever wanted to read an article or use their archives?
Neither is a category to which I belong. If a website is going to make it a hassle for me to read their ****, I can get the information from one of a billion other places on the Internet. Also, that article is kind of "Duh" and very indicative of students that have done no research about alums from their school and the industry in general.
The point is that their research may encounter fraudulent data. It is less reasonable to expect that every prospective law student look beyond distortions in data than to advocate that more stringent reporting standards be enacted, which is what some people in the article call for. Anecdotal evidence that you get from talking to a few alums is also unreliable.
Yes, please stop going to law school and graduating just to further crowd this field I'm working in. Go study criminal justice and work in a prison instead.
The point is that their research may encounter fraudulent data. It is less reasonable to expect that every prospective law student look beyond distortions in data than to advocate that more stringent reporting standards be enacted, which is what some people in the article call for. Anecdotal evidence that you get from talking to a few alums is also unreliable.
I'm assuming you're primarily speaking to those attending Tier 3 and 4 schools? I see little point in pursuing a legal education if you're not going to be competitive in your class and/or nationally. The demand certainly isn't good enough to justify a legal education with mediocre credentials.
if you can get t2 or t3 with little/no debt coming out, have no aspirations for BigLaw, or can guarantee you finish in the top 1% of your class, or are okay with making $50k in a government job or trying to get your face plastered on a billboard it's a great deal for you.
Fixed that for you.