Covid accelerated dress code de-formalization - true or false?

[dieworkwear]

Yes. I get that. Not everyone wants to put in the effort, be that time or money. But then, how can they expect architects and builders to put in the money or effort to build more aesthetically pleasing buildings.

Don't they understand that they, in the eyes of everyone who lays eyes on them, are polluting the visual experience just as much as those houses.

It's like complaining about the street music being played while yelling so loud that everyone around them gets a headache.

Polluting is a strong word. When I go outside, I rarely see people in suits, yet I often see stylish people. I don't think people have to wear a suit to look stylish. In fact, when I take the actual sample size of people in the real world who are well dressed, I would say the majority of them are not wearing suits.

But then, how can they expect architects and builders to put in the money or effort to build more aesthetically pleasing buildings.

? You mean, how do they expect that rich people will commission fancy homes? I don't quite understand your analogy.

Not everyone even appreciates the same architecture. My mother loves modern buildings and I love old American Craftsman homes. Find what you like about the world and let people do their own thing.

 

[RSS]

Oh, the abbreviation is completely intertwined with the dumbing down of America.

I new u'd no.

 

[RSS]

Not everyone even appreciates the same architecture. My mother loves modern buildings and I love old American Craftsman homes. Find what you like about the world and let people do their own thing.

Hopefully we can agree that no one likes the McMansion. Yeah, I know, even that's a fantasy.

Btw, I'm another craftsman / arts & crafts fan. Sadly they are difficult to find in the PNW -- especially in the location we want to live -- and I would NOT take my spouse as a client. One of us would end up in the ER or worse.

Now, having said craftsman, I'm also a fan of houses having all the charm -- as Tom Wolfe put it -- of an insecticide factory.

 

[Hellbent]

Polluting is a strong word. When I go outside, I rarely see people in suits, yet I often see stylish people. I don't think people have to wear a suit to look stylish. In fact, when I take the actual sample size of people in the real world who are well dressed, I would say the majority of them are not wearing suits.

Your statement assumes that everyone looks at you and thinks you look great. They may not.

? You mean, how do they expect that rich people will commission fancy homes? I don't quite understand your analogy.

Not everyone even appreciates the same architecture. My mother loves modern buildings and I love old American Craftsman homes. Find what you like about the world and let people do their own thing.

It's not about the suit necessarily. It's about as soon as people don't have to care about how they look they just do so.

Somebody who does not care at all about how he dresses usually looks like a mess. And usually that person in very much aware of that. Still he puts himself within view of others. And yet has the nerve to complain about how terrible other people, paintings, sculptures, buildings etc look.

I simply think that putting in some sort of effort in my own visual appearance is a prerequisite for judging other things or people based on how they look.

EDIT: I read this text again. And fear I still did not express myself clearly enough. These types of discussions are not easy to have online, at least for me.

 

[dieworkwear]

Somebody who does not care at all about how he dresses usually looks like a mess. And usually that person in very much aware of that. Still he puts himself within view of others. And yet has the nerve to complain about how terrible other people, paintings, sculptures, buildings etc look.

I simply think that putting in some sort of effort in my own visual appearance is a prerequisite for judging other things or people based on how they look.

I'm curious, can you furnish us with a photo of your handwriting? Since you complain about the state of dress, I trust that you don't pollute the world with bad penmanship.

 

[Hellbent]

I'm curious, can you furnish us with a photo of your handwriting? Since you complain about the state of dress, I trust that you don't pollute the world with bad penmanship.

It’s from my latin studies. Tried my hand with some sort of Spencerian. Not completely accurate I am afraid.

 

[dieworkwear]

View attachment 1661206
It’s from my latin studies.

Better than most!

A photo of mine: a note I wrote to myself the other day about some trousers I plan to order from a tailor

 

[Hellbent]

Better than most!

A photo of mine: a note I wrote to myself the other day about some trousers I plan to order from a tailor

View attachment 1661213

Very nice. Looks like business spencerian?

 

[dieworkwear]

Very nice. Looks like business spencerian?

Untrained, unfortunately. At the start of the pandemic, I bought some of Michael Sull's books on how to write in Spencerian, intending to improve my penmanship. But like a lot of stuff in my life, it ended up falling by the wayside.

The Normal posted some basic Spenciarian tutorials online recently and I've been meaning to practice off those. Linking one here, but the person behind this account has multiple videos

 

[TheChihuahua]

I'm curious, can you furnish us with a photo of your handwriting? Since you complain about the state of dress, I trust that you don't pollute the world with bad penmanship.

wouldnt a major difference be:
How often does the world actually see somebody’s penmanship?

I write by hand a lot, but it’s almost always in the form of quick fast notes, brainstorming, outlines of the structure of what will later become a type written draft, or a to do/task list, or other notes that are mainly personal in that they are not ever intended to be seen by anyone else.
Anything for public consumption or that will be seen externally is typed.

the way someone dresses is almost always for public consumption.

and the housing example is a bit far fetched in that it is a resource issue. Sur many would love to live in a classic Newport RI summer cottage or in Beacon Hill, but that’s an incredibly expensive pursuit.

dressing well can be expensive, but it need not be. And maintaining one’s appearance to the public is usually more a matter of effort than a huge financial undertaking.

 

[Pax Britannica]

I like formality, I'll wear a suit with or without a pandemic. I guess people who wear ripped jeans and tshirts will wear that way with or without a pandemic. The restaurant here is just trying to get more customers now that business is bad, so I'd say the impact is not that much.

 

[Hellbent]

Untrained, unfortunately. At the start of the pandemic, I bought some of Michael Sull's books on how to write in Spencerian, intending to improve my penmanship. But like a lot of stuff in my life, it ended up falling by the wayside.

The Normal posted some basic Spenciarian tutorials online recently and I've been meaning to practice off those. Linking one here, but the person behind this account has multiple videos

Yes I’m also very much untrained. Funnily I have also been thinking about getting the book from Michael Sull Meanwhile I have derived much inspiration from many of the wonderful examples provided by fpupulin over on the fountainpennetwork forum.

 

[dieworkwear]

wouldnt a major difference be:
How often does the world actually see somebody’s penmanship?

I write by hand a lot, but it’s almost always in the form of quick fast notes, brainstorming, outlines of the structure of what will later become a type written draft, or a to do/task list, or other notes that are mainly personal in that they are not ever intended to be seen by anyone else.
Anything for public consumption or that will be seen externally is typed.

the way someone dresses is almost always for public consumption.

and the housing example is a bit far fetched in that it is a resource issue. Sur many would love to live in a classic Newport RI summer cottage or in Beacon Hill, but that’s an incredibly expensive pursuit.

dressing well can be expensive, but it need not be. And maintaining one’s appearance to the public is usually more a matter of effort than a huge financial undertaking.

I agree that one's dress is more often seen by the public than their handwriting. Although teachers still write on the board and most people still address envelopes by hand.

It just doesn't bother me that some people don't dress well, and I think most well-dressed people don't wear suits (naturally since most people don't wear suits). Lots of people look great in casualwear. I also think aesthetics is subjective and that dress isn't purely for public consumption. I certainly dress for the public, to some degree, but I also dress for my own pleasure. I would not deny someone the ability to do the same, and many people prioritize comfort and convenience. Or they may have a different identity, background, and sense of aesthetics than me, which is totally fine.

I think to wear CM well, you have to have a bit of money. Even by "entry level" standards on this board, a pair of shoes will cost $200, a suit maybe $500, dress shirt about $100, tie about $70, etc. Multiple this many times to have a wardrobe -- and consider the costs of upkeep -- and you have many thousands of dollars. It doesn't surprise me that many people don't wish to wear these things when they're burdened with other costs and/ or interests.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I was taught to write properly, and still wrote all my essays and exams by hand as an undergraduate. But since then, computers have done for me, and my writing is astonishingly bad - like a demented spider.

 

[radicaldog]

I don't think people have to wear a suit to look stylish. In fact, when I take the actual sample size of people in the real world who are well dressed, I would say the majority of them are not wearing suits.

This. It's incredible that it's even controversial. And I say this as someone who loves suits and tailored jackets and who has far too many of them. Most of the best dressed people I know don't even spend a lot of money on clothes. They have a good eye, typically developed by being artists or intellectuals, and they spend some time considering what to wear and how to source it (most great dressers are less spontaneous than they'll have you believe). That's all it takes, and it's a lot, but it's neither a lot of money nor a lot of attention to internet-ossified mid-20thC etiquette. The most successful StyFo dressers get there eventually, but through a sort of Rube-Goldberg process.