Correct Number of Sleeve Buttons for a Four Button Suit?

[JohnMRobie]

A former member of this forum suggested that you look at pictures of people with a style you think works, and you try to figure out what you like about it, and how they achieve it. See if the looks you like have any common denominators. He also wrote a set of articles about inspiration for developing good taste.

My own addition to this would be to look at the WHOLE look. In menswear, it's very easy to get stuck on details (which fabric should I use, how many buttons on the cuff). Noone ever looked good by wearing the most spectacular shoes - at least in classic, tailored clothing it's having an outfit that's harmonious, with well-fitting, well cut clothes that give a pleasing silhouette. Maybe check out the "What are you wearing today" and "Classic menswear, casual style" threads in the CM forum to get some inspiration?

Be careful with the WAYWT and CMCS threads - They usually have more misses than hits.

 

[Daniel Hakimi]

Well, while I would never actually choose to have four buttons on a suit, I am currently on a budget and just picked up everything I liked the look of and that fit well during a day of second-hand charity shopping, and, strangely enough, my favourite one of the lot and the one that looks the most flattering on me (I do have a long torso after-all) is a four button suit.

"I am on a budget, so I bought a bunch of things I don't like at all" is not very clear logic. Stop buying things as ridiculous as a four button suit, just be patient and you'll find something wearable in your size.

If having four buttons was not enough already to raise an eyebrow, it currently has only three sleeve buttons, the combination of which looks helluva wrong, and which I intend to remedy ASAP. I am just undecided whether I should go with four or five sleeve buttons?

The number of sleeve buttons makes a truly negligible difference here. If you're truly unable to put it out of your mind, fine. But there's no "correct number of buttons," just do whatever puts your mind at ease.

Do you think I should avoid wearing a four-button suit all together, even though it is by far the best fit of my jackets at the moment? I mean, I know the style is odd, especially with it's peaked lapels (another thing I would not have chosen for a suit myself), but I look fairly eccentric anyway.

Ehhh show us this thing and your next best fitting suit, if you're willing. I really think you should be more patient and find something that doesn't suck, even if it needs some tailoring.

 

[ConservativEccentric]

A former member of this forum suggested that you look at pictures of people with a style you think works, and you try to figure out what you like about it, and how they achieve it. See if the looks you like have any common denominators. He also wrote a set of articles about inspiration for developing good taste.

My own addition to this would be to look at the WHOLE look. In menswear, it's very easy to get stuck on details (which fabric should I use, how many buttons on the cuff). Noone ever looked good by wearing the most spectacular shoes - at least in classic, tailored clothing it's having an outfit that's harmonious, with well-fitting, well cut clothes that give a pleasing silhouette. Maybe check out the "What are you wearing today" and "Classic menswear, casual style" threads in the CM forum to get some inspiration?

Thank you for the suggestions and the article. I suppose my main issue is not that I do not know what I like (I am in fact so picky that I often can only acquire the clothes/clothing-details I want via custom online orders), but whether aspects of the look I like actually suit my body shape, whether I am unknowingly combining things that should not go together and committing a faux pas or dressing anathema by the standards of most style conscious people (for example, I own a wing collar shirt that has straight-edged single button barrel cuffs and which I occasionally wear without neckwear for casual occasions - I justify the barrel cuffs at least by the fact that early Victorian standing collar shirts could indeed be found with barrel cuffs and I have never found a pair of double-sided cuff links that I like - single sided cufflinks look unfinished to me so I hate wearing them). Not to mention the fact that I am terrible at taking my own measurements accurately and achieving a good fit or cut that works.

I have never followed fashion and until joining this forum was ignorant of style icons; my influences have always simply been my own instinctual draw to certain individual aspects of clothing or random pictures of a whole look/outfit (often from the 19th, 18th, and 17th centuries rather than anything modern). I love starkly contrasting monochrome for the base of an outfit (I will never wear a suit or coat that is not black), with colour only present in ties, pocket squares, scarves, and other accessories. I love shirts with standing collars, or at least shirts with the least amount of fabric present in the part of the collar that folds down (like cutaway collars). I like a high gorge on a suit and/or the vest so that very little of the shirt fabric shows on the chest area. I like sharp edges (squared/straight cuffs, lapels, and quarters), and a lot of length (suits that reach the fingertips, topcoats that reach the knees, overcoats that reach the ankles, trousers with no break), etc. The only modern-day person I can think of who exemplifies my taste is Donna Tartt (pictures below), but she is a woman and our body types are completely different.

 

[ConservativEccentric]

"I am on a budget, so I bought a bunch of things I don't like at all" is not very clear logic. Stop buying things as ridiculous as a four button suit, just be patient and you'll find something wearable in your size.

The number of sleeve buttons makes a truly negligible difference here. If you're truly unable to put it out of your mind, fine. But there's no "correct number of buttons," just do whatever puts your mind at ease.

Ehhh show us this thing and your next best fitting suit, if you're willing. I really think you should be more patient and find something that doesn't suck, even if it needs some tailoring.

On the contrary, I liked all three of the jackets that I bought; I simply disliked a few of their details, and I am so anal about what I do and do not like when it comes to the details of clothing that if I only ever bought things that were 100% what I wanted, well, I would own no clothes at all and be sitting here naked.

I like to be aware of tradition, especially when making a decision that I personally have no personal preference in, so if there were a number of sleeve buttons that are traditionally or historically considered to be more correct, then I would consider that relevant information to base my choice on. I notice details even if other people do not, and whether anyone else in the world gives an iota about how many sleeve buttons I may have, I myself still care.

I already returned the four button suit, so I cannot take a comparison picture. It is highly unlikely that I will find something better, within a realistic time frame, from a secondhand shop, as I had made a list of and mapped out every secondhand clothing shop I could find listed within my city and spent the day, from the first opening time until the last one closed its doors, visiting each and every one and trying on every single suit jacket that looked close to my size and was of a style that I would actually wear.

 

[JohnMRobie]

I have never followed fashion and until joining this forum was ignorant of style icons; my influences have always simply been my own instinctual draw to certain individual aspects of clothing or random pictures of a whole look/outfit (often from the 19th, 18th, and 17th centuries rather than anything modern). I love starkly contrasting monochrome for the base of an outfit (I will never wear a suit or coat that is not black), with colour only present in ties, pocket squares, scarves, and other accessories. I love shirts with standing collars, or at least shirts with the least amount of fabric present in the part of the collar that folds down (like cutaway collars). I like a high gorge on a suit and/or the vest so that very little of the shirt fabric shows on the chest area. I like sharp edges (squared/straight cuffs, lapels, and quarters), and a lot of length (suits that reach the fingertips, topcoats that reach the knees, overcoats that reach the ankles, trousers with no break), etc. The only modern-day person I can think of who exemplifies my taste is Donna Tartt (pictures below), but she is a woman and our body types are completely different.

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I’m not sure you’ll find many resources on this site helpful with this aesthetic.

Also black suits that aren’t tuxedos are an abomination.

 

[msimon]

Black suits remind me of school uniforms.

 

[ConservativEccentric]

I’m not sure you’ll find many resources on this site helpful with this aesthetic.

Also black suits that aren’t tuxedos are an abomination.

Though I may already have an aesthetic I like, I am flexible about changing aspects of it (and just because I like something does not necessarily mean it actually suits me and looks good) and would welcome any honest advice, even if I may not always choose to follow it. For instance, I am almost done working my way through Hugo Jacomet's Sartorial Talks videos (recommended to me on another thread), and though I personally find Hugo's style to be tacky, and at times downright vulgar, and will not follow at least 50% of his advice, I am nevertheless learning and gleaning a lot of good information that I can use.

Why do you consider black suits an abomination? I have always been attracted to black clothing (my parents report that it began at four years of age when they bought my first black outfit for a funeral and I loved it so much that I then refused to wear anything else); black was pretty much de rigueur among my social group of friends when I was younger; and it was also the expected and required colour for my chosen career path (though health issues ultimately derailed it). Though it had nothing to do with my childhood preference for it, the colour's cultural symbolism also took on an important personal meaning for me later, and I intend and expect to be wearing black for the rest of my life. I do not see the feelings driving my choice to wear black ever fading with time or social pressure.

 

[ConservativEccentric]

Black suits remind me of school uniforms.

I do not think I have ever seen an all-black school uniform. Every school uniform I have worn or seen worn by others, even if black was present (which it often wasn't), was dominated by, or at least in equal proportion to, another colour: grey, navy, brown, dark green, burgundy, etc. If any colour of suit looks most like some kind of uniform to me, it would be blue suits.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Though I may already have an aesthetic I like, I am flexible about changing aspects of it (and just because I like something does not necessarily mean it actually suits me and looks good) and would welcome any honest advice, even if I may not always choose to follow it. For instance, I am almost done working my way through Hugo Jacomet's Sartorial Talks videos (recommended to me on another thread), and though I personally find Hugo's style to be tacky, and at times downright vulgar, and will not follow at least 50% of his advice, I am nevertheless learning and gleaning a lot of good information that I can use.

Why do you consider black suits an abomination? I have always been attracted to black clothing (my parents report that it began at four years of age when they bought my first black outfit for a funeral and I loved it so much that I then refused to wear anything else); black was pretty much de rigueur among my social group of friends when I was younger; and it was also the expected and required colour for my chosen career path (though health issues ultimately derailed it). Though it had nothing to do with my childhood preference for it, the colour's cultural symbolism also took on an important personal meaning for me later, and I intend and expect to be wearing black for the rest of my life. I do not see the feelings driving my choice to wear black ever fading with time or social pressure.

Black is a perfectly fine color to utilize in your wardrobe but not when it comes to tailoring** (very rare exceptions apply here). Thinks like black denim, black t shirts, black polos are wonderful.

Not sure what the poster was talking about with school uniforms. Gray or khaki trousers and a navy twill blazer are the classic school uniform.

In a classic menswear context however black in terms of tailoring should be almost exclusively reserved for formal wear and if not worn as a part of a proper formal rig (BT, WT, morning dress) should be reserved to wear in the evening and demands specific, well thought out cloth lest you want to look like an undertaker or waiter. A black suit will also be very difficult to pair things with. Outside of formal wear a black grenadine tie and shoes are the only classic menswear items that belong in one’s wardrobe.

 

[ConservativEccentric]

Black is a perfectly fine color to utilize in your wardrobe but not when it comes to tailoring** (very rare exceptions apply here). Thinks like black denim, black t shirts, black polos are wonderful.

Not sure what the poster was talking about with school uniforms. Gray or khaki trousers and a navy twill blazer are the classic school uniform.

In a classic menswear context however black in terms of tailoring should be almost exclusively reserved for formal wear and if not worn as a part of a proper formal rig (BT, WT, morning dress) should be reserved to wear in the evening and demands specific, well thought out cloth lest you want to look like an undertaker or waiter. A black suit will also be very difficult to pair things with. Outside of formal wear a black grenadine tie and shoes are the only classic menswear items that belong in one’s wardrobe.

Well, I do not wear denim, tee shirts, or polos; the most casual clothes I have are slacks, a spread collar shirt, and a sweater vest. I am curious what the very rare exceptions you mentioned are? Or were you just referring to black tie, white tie, and morning dress? If I am not mistaken, morning dress, though considered formal today, was originally casual wear, so it is only in the modern era that black would be seen as inappropriate?

I honestly do not mind looking rather like an undertaker, as embalming was originally what I was going to be doing as a job, and even outside of anything to do with that, I have attended more funerals than any other kind of event requiring a suit. Also, my own more personal reasons for wearing black all the time is indeed because it is mourning wear.

I began wearing ties, pocket squares, and other accessories with more patterns and a bit more colour because when I am wearing a suit rather than a frock coat, I can look too much like a security guard (though, funny enough, that is a job I had). I am not sure what you mean by a black suit being difficult to pair things with? I would have thought it would be the easiest since black does not clash with any other colour? I also find black to simply be the most physically practical colour, as it is the only one that does not show either blood or sweat (though I do look after my clothes, I prefer clothes that, as well as looking nice, could still serve me well enough during unexpected emergencies).

 

[msimon]

I do not think I have ever seen an all-black school uniform. Every school uniform I have worn or seen worn by others, even if black was present (which it often wasn't), was dominated by, or at least in equal proportion to, another colour: grey, navy, brown, dark green, burgundy, etc. If any colour of suit looks most like some kind of uniform to me, it would be blue suits.

My secondary school was all black and white shirt, hated everything about it. Must just be my personal experience.

 

[DorianGreen]

Black is a perfectly fine color to utilize in your wardrobe but not when it comes to tailoring** (very rare exceptions apply here). Thinks like black denim, black t shirts, black polos are wonderful.

Not sure what the poster was talking about with school uniforms. Gray or khaki trousers and a navy twill blazer are the classic school uniform.

In a classic menswear context however black in terms of tailoring should be almost exclusively reserved for formal wear and if not worn as a part of a proper formal rig (BT, WT, morning dress) should be reserved to wear in the evening and demands specific, well thought out cloth lest you want to look like an undertaker or waiter. A black suit will also be very difficult to pair things with. Outside of formal wear a black grenadine tie and shoes are the only classic menswear items that belong in one’s wardrobe.

I totally agree with that. Black is a non colour, very difficult to integrate in tailoring, except for formal clothing in rare occasions. Recently I have seen some nice summer combinations though of black with ecru/cream or light brown/tobacco, very pleasing indeed.

 

[ter1413]

In Asia, black suits are worn as much/more that any other color, in my opinion.

Not saying that the majority of those outfits actually look nice, but the color is a mainstay.

 

[DorianGreen]

In Asia, black suits are worn as much/more that any other color, in my opinion.

Not saying that the majority of those outfits actually look nice, but the color is a mainstay.

Even though Asia certainly has its contributions to menclothing, we speak here mainly of western classic styles, where black has a very limited use.

 

[Daniel Hakimi]

Even though Asia certainly has its contributions to menclothing, we speak here mainly of western classic styles, where black has a very limited use.

People in Asia in 2023 wear classic western suits. Not sure what you thought they wore...