1. Welcome to the new Styleforum!

    We hope you’re as excited as we are to hang out in the new place. There are more new features that we’ll announce in the near future, but for now we hope you’ll enjoy the new site.

    We are currently fine-tuning the forum for your browsing pleasure, so bear with any lingering dust as we work to make Styleforum even more awesome than it was.

    Oh, and don’t forget to head over to the Styleforum Journal, because we’re giving away two pairs of Carmina shoes to celebrate our move!

    Please address any questions about using the new forum to support@styleforum.net

    Cheers,

    The Styleforum Team

    Dismiss Notice

Correct button stance

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by imageWIS, Apr 2, 2005.

  1. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20,008
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Location:
    New York City / Buenos Aires
    I was doodling around on CAD and came up with the following two drawings of 1-button SB notch lapel jackets. But, which one looks better and / or is more proper according to visual balance and "˜the rules' The one with the lower button stance or the one with the higher button stance? [​IMG] [​IMG] Jon.
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,153
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Location:
    Vancouver and ?
    IMO the first one looks a lot more balanced. I'll wait for the heavyweights to weigh in though...

    A.
     
  3. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    19,179
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Location:
    Where Eagles Dare!
  4. j

    j Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,914
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Wish I had a bigger monitor on this crappy laptop so I could see them side-by-side.

    The first looks more balanced. However, if you moved the waist pockets up a bit on the second, it would look good too. The only reason it looks off balance is the pockets, IMO. I like the relationship of the button to the waistline better on the second.

    Now, your task is to take that CAD drawing and make it into a Java applet that we can play with and try things out on. Get crackin'.
     
  5. lisapop

    lisapop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Whichever button arrangement looks best on YOU is the best one.  What is most flattering for one person might be wrong for another, depending on your overall anatomy.  I own suits with both approaches, however one is a good deal more effective for me than the other.  I'm tall, and so a higher button placement for me tends to make the jacket look like I outgrew it. A lower button stance is more flattering to a longer torso. Same goes for lapel width, gorge, shoulders, etc.  They're all individual issues.
    Grayson
     
  6. Ranjeev

    Ranjeev Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    337
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    I like the first one as well. I think the gorge is too high on the second one for a one button suit. That's just my drunk opinion.
     
  7. Fritz

    Fritz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    155
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    Germany
    I also voted for the first one. Lisapop makes an important point, though, IMO.

    Very cool drawings, Jon. I wish I could find a way to put my occasional "sartorial visions" to paper (or screen), but I am not talented for that sort of thing.
     
  8. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,452
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    I think the first one will last you longer too. The second looks fashionable with the higher button stance, the first looks more classic to my eye.
     
  9. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    The main problem with the second one is less the height of the buttoning point in absolute terms than that the waist button does not line up with the latitude of the coat's waist.  That throws off the balance more than anything else.  It's important to note that if you want a coat with a high buttoning point, you can't simply ask your tailor to move up the waist button at the final fitting.  I mean, you can do that, but the chances that it will look right are not great.  The high button point has to be "built in" at the cutting stage.

    That said, I think the top one is slightly lower than I prefer, and the bottom one slightly higher.  What I try for on SB coats is a button point that to the naked eye looks as though the waist button is exactly at the mid-point of the coat.  Place it at the real mid-point, though, and it will look too high.  The "right" point is something like (measuring up from the front bottom edge) center backseam divided by two, minus some small amount, depending on height and body shape.  2" would be a lot; 1" probably the minimum; 1.5" or 1.25" just right in most cases.
     
  10. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    Otherwise, good looking coats. I like the gorge height, and the shape of the lapels and the breast pocket.
     
  11. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20,008
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Location:
    New York City / Buenos Aires
    Thanks, they are designed in the Neapolitan style, mainly borrowed form Attolini, as is obvious by the high gorge, the fairly wide, yet curving lapels and barchetta breast pocket. The shirt collar used is based on 2 T&A-made RLPL cutaway shirts I own.

    Jon.
     
  12. kolecho

    kolecho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,166
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Manton,

    The general "formula" that you outlined is indeed useful, but does it also not depend on where a person's natural waist is? I thought that the buttonpoint/waist of the jacket should coincide with the natural waist, which in some cases may not conform to your general formula.
     
  13. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    Not necessarily. It's much more important for trousers to be at (or above) the natural waist than it is for jackets. A jacket's proper fit does not depend on the latitude of the natural waist, whereas the fit of trousers does.

    Anyway, the waist of a jacket is itself an illusion. A jacket with a high waist can make a low-waisted guy with a long trunk look more well-proportioned. This trick can work on almost anyone, except the extremely egg-shaped, who for all intents and purposes have no waist.
     
  14. water

    water Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    I am curious about the "proper" middle button position on a three-button jacket where the top button is placed on the lapel roll (as seen a great deal in Italy). Should the middle button "line-up" with the waist of the jacket or should the waist of the jacket appear to be positioned between the bottom two buttons?
     
  15. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    The waist button of any jacket should always line up with the waist of the jacket. In my opinion.
     
  16. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20,008
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Location:
    New York City / Buenos Aires
    As a point of reference, I used a 3-button jacket as a primer when drawing the 1-button jackets. The second picture (higher button) is based on a jacket whose button is directly where the middle button is on a 3-button jacket, whereas the in the first jacket (lower button) the button is based on my own visual perception as to what looks "˜balanced'.

    Jon.
     
  17. johnnynorman3

    johnnynorman3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,686
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2004
    I like the first one -- that is still on the higher side of "classic" IMO. Even if the waist of the second coat were raised, the first one would still be more flattering to my body types, as it would probably create a bit more shape to the chest (more 3 dimensional). It would also avoid having the skirt flare too much.

    But, on a more personal note, those are incredible drawings -- the first of which I shall be taking to my tailor.
     
  18. water

    water Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    389
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    So, for example, does the middle button on this jacket look too high? [​IMG]
     
  19. imageWIS

    imageWIS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20,008
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    Location:
    New York City / Buenos Aires
    Here are the jackets side by side with a line drawn at midpoint: [​IMG] Jon.
     
  20. Manton

    Manton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    You sure that's the middle button? Looks like the top to me. And it does indeed look too high.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by