Cars We Drive!

[Piobaire]



The Abarths are faster than most cars on the road.

1) For every one of this new line up of Fiats that are sold how many are Abarths?

2) The 2013 Abarth is rated around 6.7-7 seconds (depends on the review). Here's a 2012 rated at 7.2 seconds: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/2012-fiat-500-abarth-1

3) You're mistaking a car's performance criteria for how it will actually be driven.

#3 is the key point.

 

[edmorel]



1) For every one of this new line up of Fiats that are sold how many are Abarths?

2) The 2013 Abarth is rated around 6.7-7 seconds (depends on the review). Here's a 2012 rated at 7.2 seconds: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/2012-fiat-500-abarth-1

3) You're mistaking a car's performance criteria for how it will actually be driven.

#3 is the key point.

My favorite part of the 500 is the wheels, they look like lawnmower wheels, so cute.

 

[edmorel]

I don't understand the front fascia of those 4C's and I also thought that Lotus Elise was just a very overdesigned, very ugly version of a Toyota Celica.

 

[Kai]

I love my Abarth. It's a lot of fun to drive. Plenty of performance for a commuter-hatch back. It was clearly engineered by enthusiasts.

1) For every one of this new line up of Fiats that are sold how many are Abarths?

2) The 2013 Abarth is rated around 6.7-7 seconds (depends on the review). Here's a 2012 rated at 7.2 seconds: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/2012-fiat-500-abarth-1

3) You're mistaking a car's performance criteria for how it will actually be driven.

#3 is the key point.

 

[Piobaire]



I love my Abarth. It's a lot of fun to drive. Plenty of performance for a commuter-hatch back. It was clearly engineered by enthusiasts.

#3 is the key point.

 

[UnFacconable]



I don't understand the front fascia of those 4C's and I also thought that Lotus Elise was just a very overdesigned, very ugly version of a Toyota Celica.

Yeah, the Elise was an ugly waterbug. Setting aside looks, which is difficult to comment on with something I've yet to see in person, the 4C sounds like the antidote to the various complaints "enthusiasts" have had about cars for the last few years. People here complain about bloated weight - this thing weighs 2200 lbs. People complain about electric power steering - FFS this has manual steering. The power to weight ratio is fine - 9.2 lbs/hp (identical to Cayman S). It's bringing a carbon fiber tub to an aluminum chassis party. The only question in my mind is price - I wouldn't be surprised if it starts at sub $65k in the US to take it under the Cayman S price. In reality, it will transact at prices far below average Cayman price because Alfa is unlikely to charge exorbitant prices for options. It's only a matter of time before Porsche starts charging $2k for necessities like rearview mirrors, fuel filler caps and seats and even more for luxuries like emergency brakes and AC. To be clear, my only beef with porsche pricing is the options - I think they are a fair deal at list price otherwise.

Oh, and for all you doods who slobber over everything Chris Harris says, he seems to love the 4C.

 

[TheFoo]

I specifically referred to the latest iteration of the Elise, which is a much sharper, cleaner design than the prior "waterbug."

The 4C will cost north of $80k, reportedly. The sub-Cayman pricing didn't work out because (surprise!) the carbon fiber chassis was not as cheap to produce as hoped.

 

[UnFacconable]



I specifically referred to the latest iteration of the Elise, which is a much sharper, cleaner design than the prior "waterbug."

The 4C will cost north of $80k, reportedly. The sub-Cayman pricing didn't work out because (surprise!) the carbon fiber chassis was not as cheap to produce as hoped.

Latest usually means a product that is actually released, but I guess you meant to refer to the 2015 Elise - which I would agree is much better than the old Elise, but given the state of Lotus' affairs, I am not holding my breath on that car meeting expectations. Next generation Elise would have been a better reference.

As for 4c pricing, it's priced at 53,000 euros in Italy which undercuts the base Cayman price there (55,000 euros). Looks like it is 51k GBP which is about 3k more than the Cayman S in the UK. Not sure why it would be somewhat on parity with the Cayman and Cayman S across the pond, and then $15k more than the Cayman S in the US. I would be pretty surprised if they release it anywhere north of $65k in the US.

Oh, and there's this: https://twitter.com/RoadandTrack/statuses/382053574601375744

"Alfa Romeo 4C to start at $54,000, on sale in USA by the second quarter of 2014. @jasoncammisa about to drive one."

 

[TheFoo]

No. I am not referring to the 2015 concept car. I am referring to the last iteration of the car that actually exists. The Elise has gone through three major re-designs over its life. Look it up.

The 2015 concept was a travesty, in my opinion. I'm glad it was aborted.

 

[UnFacconable]



No. I am not referring to the 2015 concept car. I am referring to the last iteration of the car that actually exists. The Elise has gone through three major re-designs over its life. Look it up.

The 2015 concept was a travesty, in my opinion. I'm glad it was aborted.

Okay you lost me again. The 2011 Elise still looks ugly to my eye. Definitely not as waterbug ugly as previous iteration but hard to call this "much prettier" than anything. I would understand if you think the 4C is uglier. And fwiw, this is the best picture I could find of the 2011 base model. The higher end editions have all kinds of the overdesigned crap edmorel referred to and overall the proportions are still ungainly.

Thoughts on the Road & Track reporting the 4C to be released at $54k in the US in light of your previous comments?

 

[HRoi]

I was quoting speculation earlier that the 4c would be 80k plus. At 54k it sounds like a huge performance bargain

 

[TheFoo]

That Elise is gorgeous.

 

[UnFacconable]



That Elise is gorgeous.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This to me is more representative of cars on the streets. You think this is gorgeous too?

 

[TheFoo]

Yes, gorgeous. I don't understand what there is to dislike about it.

 

[UnFacconable]



Yes, gorgeous. I don't understand what there is to dislike about it.

Setting aside the proportions which I think are ungainly (by the way - I may feel the same about the 4C - haven't seen it in person yet), I think the car would benefit from more body color gewgaws instead of the black plastic. Overall, it's an extremely busy composition.